Handi 223 Throat and COL and LC Brass

[rezz]

I am trying to figure out a good COL for my handi 223 bull barrel and could use some ideas.

The bullet of the moment is Vmax 55 which measures ~.82
I have fitted a bullet in a loose necked case and in order to contact any lands the COL is around 2.38-2.44
Recommended COL is 2.2 for this bullet. This is the minimum.....right??
The case is trimmed to 1.752.
With COL at 2.38 that puts about 2 bullet diameters in the neck if I figure right.         COL 2.38-1.75=.63    .224x2=.448   That should be ok, right?

The questions is.....does this length sound about right for a long throated barrel?
I figured to go with a COL of 2.29 for a load and see how it does.  Would 2.38 be too much??

Now an easier question.
Someone gave me some Lake City brass that has been fired in an AR. These cases all have a small dent on the side near the middle that I assume was caused by the gun somehow.
Do you think this small ding would cause problems?
I have full length resized 50 and the ding seemed to get smaller but is still there. Will firing likely straighten the dent out?? Is it safe enough to try?? Is this usual for AR cases?

[LaOtto222]

You have asked some tough questions. Short answer vary the OAL until you find what works...you are not going to reach the lands no matter what you seat at. The OAL is a standard that has been set up when the cartridge was first born. Many times it is set because of action length, magazine length or throat length. Some loading manuals will vary it slightly depending on the bullet shape they are using, but not by a whole lot. One principle you must keep in mind is case capacity. If you shorten the OAL, then you have reduced the case capacity, if you lengthen the OAL, you have increased the case capacity. Handi rifles are notorious for their long throats in .223 Remington. Most of the folks that load for the Handi rifle stick with the recommended OAL for their loads. I also have a .223 Bull barrel "ultra" Handi (1-12" twist). I seat the bullet a little longer than the recommended OAL. But I do not go over by much. I vary the bullets, powder and charge weights to get my best load. Tuning the rifle can help in a lot of cases. Read the FAQ section at the top of the Handi rifle forum to get ideas with that. There are a lot of good answers there. Many have found that the 55 grain bullets shoot best, but as in most rifles, it may or may not work for you. The dent in the side of the case will not hurt any thing. Just remember that you need to full length size them to start with and case capacity will be lessened with the dent. Start your powder charges at minimum and work your way up. It will probably blow out the dent, but with out seeing it, I am not sure. If it is small and does not blow out, then it will not hurt any thing if you have worked up your load from the bottom. Good luck to you.

[LaOtto222]

I am going to get a little more specific about your proposed OAL. It has some holes in it. Bullet length=.82"; Cartridge OAL = 1.75... 1.75 + .82 = 2.57" good so far - right? Well you just laid the bullet at the end of the neck, so you will have to shorten from that. 1 bullet diameter = .224" 2.57 - .224" = 2.346" As an over all length with 1 bullet diameter in the neck, if you want two diameters then subtract another .224" which = 2.122" I would start at recommended OAL and find the best load you can for it. After that, then you can start working with the OAL until you find the best point, keeping in mind your velocity may drop off a little due to extra case capacity. Do not go longer than 2.34"; 2.4" - 2.34" = .060" jump to the lands. I think that is about as close as you are going to get. When you start getting much less than 1 bullet diameter in the neck, your neck friction goes way down, you start having bullet run out problems and inconsistencies start. Start at recommended OAL and dash the idea of touching the lands.

[rezz]

Thanks Otto.
I have a hundred of that LC brass cleaned, trimmed, and ready to prime so I'll start low and give them a shot. Hopefully the firing will fix the dent.

Yep, it would take a mighty long bullet to reach the lands on this barrel. I'll start at a little over the minimum 2.20, maybe 2.25, find a good load, and then tune the seating depth to see what happens. Surely 2.30 would not be too long for this barrel and there should still be 2x diameter of bullet in the neck.

Sounds like I have some hard work ahead of me, a lot of range time, and quite a bit of shooting to get that perfect load. 

[rks1949]

LaOtto222 ,Gave you some good advice! For consistant ignition,burn rate, and neck tension,it is a rule of thumb to seat the bullet NO Less than the diamenter! (ie.224) If you want to go farther into the lands,select a longer bullet(and reduce the charge accordingly) Ron

[dw06]

I have two handis in 223, and I started by  working loads up at 2.20 till I got best groups for that powder. Then after playing with seating depth found that bull barrel likes 2.215 and the other likes 2.250 So you may not have to go out as far as you think. Only way to find out is do the shooting. Be sure and report what you end up at, inquiring minds want to know.

[rezz]

Well I got out and shot about 100 rounds in my Handi .223 yesterday. The weather was nice and everything went pretty well.

I ended up with a large variety of loads to try using Varget and several different bullets.
The best of the day gave me a group of a about .75". This was 26 grains of Varget with Nosler 40 gr Ballistic Tips. These were at COL of 2.25 and there were no signs of problems. The other loads of varget at 26.5 and 27 also had a decent showing but the groups were closer to an inch. I'll reload with 25.8, 26, and 26.2 or so and try again. The 26 grain is good for coyotes but it may see some improvement with powder tweaking and seating depth. Oh, and switch to Vmax 40s. Hopefully they will perform similar to the Noslers.

Another load showed promise too. Varget at 26.5 and Vmax 50 grain bullets. The group was a little over and inch and got worse as the charge increased up to 27.0
I'll try these again with 26-26.5 and find the best load for that bullet.

The Lake City brass worked like it was supposed to and most of the little dents came out. Can't complain, free once fired brass.

Thanks for all the advise. I will keep it simple for a while, find the right amount of Varget and then maybe tweak with seating depth and such.
Hey, this reloading is alright. Glad I read GB and decided to give it a try.

[dw06]

Sounds good!!Fair warning,reloading is habit forming