Not getting the velocities I'm looking for....

[corbanzo]

I'm loading up some 168grn tipped TSXBT's over 61.7grns of RL19... which should be giving me 2950fps or so... problem is.. . I'm only getting 2675fps or so. 

Now these are compressed loads, and I was thinking about ignition problems as such... but the speeds were rather consistent. 

Could it be that RL19 is too slow burning for my 22" barrel? 

I'm going to have to try and load up some with magnum primers just to check the ignition thing.. maybe get some faster burning and higher speeds...  Any other ideas are greatly appreciated. 

Oh yeah, 30-06.

[LaOtto222]

I would not switch primers unless you drop back the powder charge and work back up. I do not think you are going to gain a whole lot by going to a magnum primer, but I have been wrong before. I just pulled out Speer's #14 manual and looked at their 168 grain bullet. RL19 gets a max of 2697 with 61.0 grains out of a 22" barrel. So I would say you are in the neighborhood. If you use H4350 or IMR4350 you may get another 100 fps, but according to the Speer book you are not going to reach 2900fps with any powder. I also looked in Nosler and Hornady books. Both barrels are 24". They do get 2900 fps but neither one uses RL19 powder. Nosler lists IMR4350 as it's most accurate powder tested with 165 - 168 bullets. They list a maximum of 2872 fps. Hornady lists 2900 fps as max. Both Hornady and Nosler have a max charge of 57.0 grains. Start load development in the 52 or 53 grain area if you decide to use one of these powders.

[Graybeard]

Join the crowd. I've pretty much never gotten the velocities in my guns I see folks claiming to get on the internet and darn seldom do I get what the reloading manuals claim. The one exception to that is the .223 Remington. In the 26" barrels of my Remington rifles I have gotten as much and at times more velocity than the manuals claim.

Specifically in the .30-06 with 180s even tho folks say 2800 fps is do able I've been hard pressed to make 2650 fps and done that with darn few max loads.

[Castaway]

If 2675 f/s won't kill it, neither will 2900 f/s.  The drop at 200 yards will be about 6 " more but if you know that going into a longish type shot you can hold up a bit.  Manuals are notorious for optimistic claims on velocity and I've come to ignore them for the most part.  They usually give a good relative comparison, but reality of speed doesn't exist.  If it shoots accurately at 2675 f/s I'd use that as accuracy trumps velocity each and every time.

[Questor]

I don't think you can realistically get 2900+ fps from a 168 grain bullet in 30-06. 2750 in a 22 inch barrel is more realistic. I don't think your load is bad, I think your data is overly optimistic.

[beemanbeme]

I've never shot any Barnes bullets out of anything but I've shot just about every other kind of bullet out of a 30-06 and, like everybody else sez, between 2700 and 2800fps is about what you can expect for a 165gr bullet. You can maybe hotrod it up a bit more but that just makes me nervous.
I shoot 57grs of IMR4350 behind a 165gr Horn BTSP and my average for literally hundreds of shots is 2784fps. That's with a 22" barrel.
Maybe they're using longer barrels and they are adjusting the velocity for "at the muzzle". Would that make that much difference?

[Questor]

It is nice to have this insight about the quality of the Barnes data. I have the Nosler book and they too add 150 to 200fps to just about everything. At least that's been my experience.

[LaOtto222]

beemanbeme - I like Graybeard do not get the same velocities as is published. I simply use them as a guide line. Nosler used Lijina (sp) barrels for a lot of their testing. More than likely they have been hand lapped with meticulous care. In a lot of cases, I can not get the same velocity levels at the powder levels they give. I am not sure why, it just is. I have never worried too much about velocities as long as I get good accuracy. The 100 - 150 FPS difference does not mean that much, and if it is that important, it is time to move up to some thing bigger, in this case a 300 Win Mag for instance.

[jhalcott]

  Corb, The factories use special pressure test barrels and some times "selected" powders to achieve their results Also note that THEY say MUZZLE velocity not velocity chronoed ten yards down range. A long time ago ,my brother and I had Remington model 700's in 30-06. I had just got a chrony  for CHRISTmas. We tested our guns with factory AND hand loads on the same day. My gun was faster with MY handloads and his was faster with the factory ammo. The speed was only about 50 to 100 fps BUT there was a difference!  Get a buddy to test his gun with your loads(AS LONG AS THEY ARE SAFE) in his gun. Some guns are FAST while others are not.!  It might be better to try factory loads to see the difference.

[corbanzo]

I understand the overstating, but they must be WAY overstating.  According to Barnes #3 (I still need to get 4) the XBT at 165 grains gets 2980fps over 60grns of RL19.  And then supposedly, the TSX are faster at any load..., and I'm adding almost two grains...  Damn manuals...  Barnes states it's out of a 24" barrel, so the difference shouldn't be that big. 

I might have to do some more tests with H414..  or go with the rest of the world and try IMR4350.   

[Graybeard]

You are NEVER EVER gonna get those velocities Barnes claims. They pretty much always show top numbers 150-200 fps or even more higher than any other manual for any given round and bullet weight. Where and how they come up with them I have no clue but I'd say if you match them your pressures are likely to be close to proof load level. They really should get more realistic in their numbers.

[myronman3]

go over your load data very carefully.  sometimes you MUST use a magnum primer.  other times,  no matter what you do, you aint going to reach that level.   sometimes different powders work better,  and which each gun it can be totally different.     many, many varibles.     
   best thing i can tell you is get as many manuels as you can,  read, read,  cross referance,  and try different combinations,  but stick to what the books tell you.   best of luck toyou. 

[R.W.Dale]

I'm loading up some 168grn tipped TSXBT's over 61.7grns of RL19... which should be giving me 2950fps or so... problem is.. . I'm only getting 2675fps or so.

2950fps with a 168grn bullet from a 22" 30-06 is a pipe dream, it ain't gonna happen. You'll be hard pressed to get 150grn bullets up to those speeds.

Could it be that RL19 is too slow burning for my 22" barrel?

It's a complete MYTH that you "must" use a faster powder in rifles with a shorter bbl. Cause slow powders will still be "burning" when the bullet leaves the bbl.

The fact of them matter is even comparing TC handguns to rifles in the same chambering 9 times out of 10 the optimum powder for a 24" rifle will still be the optimum for a 14" handgun.

In a modern rifle cartridge shooting propellants of the correct burn rate all of the powder that is going to be consumed will do so in the first 5 or 6 inches of bullet travel.

[Castaway]

krocus, I'm glad you mentioned that.  I've about given up trying to convince folks of that fact.  Powder burns in the 1st inch or two of the cartridge mouth.  The flame from the barrel is just super-heated gasses, not burning powder.  Any unburned powder in the barrel is usually a symptom of too light of a bullet for the optimum powder and often means going to a faster powder, or in some cases, not enough crimp.

[drdougrx]

Yep...I hate these threads...worst thing I ever bought was an Oelher Chronograph...burst my bubble big time.  I'm going to test 165gr Nosler AB's this weekend. BUT.......I've completely changed my methods.  Now I shoot for accuracy BEFORE I chrono.  I'm using the 61gr RL-19 load as one of my test loads in a REM KS Mtn rifle w/ a 24" bbl.  Will keep you posted if you like.

I never get the published velocities, even in my custom barreled rifles.  In 06 I use 61gr RL-22 with 180gr NosPart and get 2771fps BTW.  I had fits recently with my .375HH, Rem BDLSS and 300gr NosPart.  The manual and a fellow in the African Thread said 2600fps, with 73gr of RL-15.  My most accurate loads at best are 2465fps with 73.5gr.  Even w/ 270gr Hornady Interlocks, I only get mid 2500's at Max loads...will be retesting these as well.

Velocity chasing makes you crazy....though...it is kinda fun letting the club experts shoot their pet loads through the Oelher and watching their jaws drop when they find they are really shooting loads hundreds of feet per second slower than they brag about.

[corbanzo]

I don't let it annoy me.  I have fun velocity chasing. 

H414 has actually been keeping up with the book loads... just shows pressure signs before other powders.....

[beemanbeme]

Folks tend to "restructure reality" when they talk about accuracy, velocity, the mileage their truck gets, and their love life. That's why you need to keep that grain of salt handy.