45 cal and 410 bore dimensions

[45carbine]

Hello
I have been reading JerryKo's informative 45/410 slug piece and have a few questions but didn't want to hijack that topic.

If wanted to do the reverse and make my 45lc a shotgun, would this damage my rifling? I found an article recently where it appeared that some people had been doing this quite succesfully and that commercial shot (stuck together?) was available to be loaded into 45lc cases.

The other questions is that if I had a 410 bore chamber and wanted to reload using brass rifle cartridges how close is the 454 casull and 460 S&W to the case dimensions of 410 bore shotguns?

Would there also be a problem with using rifle or small rifle primers and the firing pin protrusion of shotguns, if this is different?

[Saloon slug]

To answer the first question you would have to ream out your chamber. The 410 is much longer then the .45colt so with out reaming you chamber the 410 wouldn't fit.
The shot shouldnt have any effect on the rifling. You wont get nice groups with out something to stop the shot from spinning like the Handi choke.

As to the second question the 410 is still longer the the .454 ( dont know how much longer then the .460 but it is longer). This is why quite a few folks fire form 444Marlin brass and some times .303brit for use in the 410 chamber.

If you do a google search it shouldnt be hard to come up with the chamber dimensions for each. Hope this helps.

[quickdtoo]

Shooting shot in a rifled bore without a choke tube at the muzzle as is used on the 410/45C Survivor barrel, will result in a donut shaped pattern since the rifling will spin the shot out from the center. It may work fine for snakes, but patterning at any range beyond that will be fruitless.

If you want to load shot in brass cases in a .410 chamber, just use .410 brass.

Tim

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0031462215796a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=410+brass&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=410+brass&noImage=0

[45carbine]

Thanks for the replies

Was not aware that the shot would be affected by the rifling like that. I had been using rat shot in .22LR for a few years. i think they use no.12. If you used fine enough shot would that compensate for pellets being spun out of shot column?

I had been reading about people making shot loads in 45lc revolvers for snakes and rabbits. I was wondering if that would work in the handi barrel although 20 inch barrel may be the difference between ok in a pistol and no good in a rifle.

Thanks Tim for the link to 410 brass. I din't know that existed, but seems a good way to reload for my 410 bores. I am guessing this brass is to soft for loading slugs?

Cheers Mike

[quickdtoo]

Should be fine for loading slugs too, .410 pressures are relatively low at <14kpsi compared to rifle pressures, even a 22Lr is well over 20kpsi.

Tim

[45carbine]

 thanks most helpful 

[JerryKo]

45carbine,

Sorry just read your post here.  First thanks for reading mine.

It looks like most of your ?'s have been answered.  I did pattern my 410/45lc without the choke and it was very thin. I think 15 to 20 feet might be max for a rat or snake.
I have read a very good article in "Handloader" about making snake rounds with 45lc brass.  It is true the #12's worked best mostly because there was more.  Starline makes the standard size 410 all brass hulls but nothing in 3".  Most I have read states that the 444marlin brass is the easiest to use for 410 shells.  It is thicker and will last a whole lot longer at 410 pressure levels.  A good source of info on loading brass shotshells ishttp://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

Mike Venturino, think I spelled wrong, used copper gas checks between the shot and powder and on top of the shot with a slight roll crimp for the 45lc.

I haven't tried it yet, it has only been a thought, but I wondered about cutting the end off a piece of brass, filling with #7 1/2" and using LEE liquid alox to "bind them together.  Let them set and carefully pushing them as a unit into a charged brass shell and putting a gas check over them with a slight roll crimp.  Would come apart pretty easy, but might hold a little tighter that way.  Again it is just a thought that I have never tried.  Yould could even mix some up in a container and scope them into a charged case,again make sure a wad or something is between them and powder and let it set a couple days before seating another gas check and crimp.

Jerry

[45carbine]

Hello Jerry
Yes have been enjoying reading your progress with the 444 shells. For some reason I find my thoughts drifting from long range, loud, flat shooting calibers to big soft bits of lead lobing down range. The simplicity and price range of the handi rifles just seems to fit in with this so well.

Am following up a few leads for brass for my 410 shotguns, will check locally (new zealand) before I import from the states. Will have to sort out the same for gas checks or nitro wads for the 45lc shot loads.

The solid shot column would be interesting. I wonder what has already been done in this with smooth bore. I really don't have big expectations, but then a 12ga should cover most needs. This would just be for fun. Thanks for the experience without the choke. I am guessing I should expect the same with a normal rifled barrel.

[quickdtoo]

I did some experimenting with shot "cartridges" for a 62cal smoothbore flintlock for turkey hunting, basically a roll of paper was glued together, then an over powder wad glued on one end and an over shot wad glued on the other end with a 1 oz charge of #6 shot inside, it took a lot of experimenting to get just the right combination that would hold together in the bore, but open up when it left the bore, lots of loads went down range and impacted the 25yd turkey target as one projectile, lethal, but not what I wanted!!

Tim

[Brett]

... lots of loads went down range and impacted the 25yd turkey target as one projectile, lethal, but not what I wanted!!
Tim

I've heard of rubber bullets, wax bullets and even wooden bullets but I think this is the first I ever heard of a paper bullet Tim. 

[quickdtoo]

Those would be paper jacketed lead bullets!!

Tim