Author Topic: Strange experience with AA 20 gauge hulls (Read 1445 times)

Questor · « **on:** May 12, 2003, 06:37:40 AM »

I had a strange experience with AA hulls. I bought a flat (250 cartridges) of #9 AA 20 gauge ammo at a sporting goods store. Then I later bought four boxes (100 cartridges) of #8 AA 20 gauge ammo at WalMart.

After one reloading, I had to discard all 100 of the hulls I bought from WalMart. The were cracked in the crimp. The others are all doing fine and, except for some smudges from being fired, they look like new.

How could that have happened? The press doesn't seem to be putting any undue stress on the cartridges.

I'm disappointed because I bought the AAs specifically for reloading. If I thought they'd only last for one reloading, I'd have bought the cheapest ammo.

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2003, 07:44:23 AM »

It is not unusual for the AA hull to crack at the crimp. It might be either an open or void with plastic still connected at the very end of the hull or it might go all the way to the end of the hull. I've had many AAs do this. Each hull has its own little problems. That is one of the AA hull's problems.

It is not in my opinion reason to toss the hull. I've used hulls with such many many more times with total success. Heck I've been known to use candle wax to close the crimp and hold it in place and still keep shooting them. Hate to do it when I'm shooting a money match but have and not lost any money yet as a result. I do not consider it a safety issue but can become a performance issuue if the pressures drop too low as a result of a poor crimp.

You'll learn that the things you toss metallic cases for are not necessarily reasons to toss a shotgun hull always.

GB

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2003, 08:57:49 AM »

Oh well. Thanks, GB. I guess I'll go fish them out of the can and reload them. The actual problem is not a crack lengthwise along the crimp, it's a little hole where the uncrimped part of the hull ends and the crimp begins. As long as it's OK to reload them that way, then I'll use 'em again.

I just don't want to get into a situation where my ammo is unreliable or too inconsistent. In any event, I'll keep these hulls separate and keep a suspicious eye on them in subsequent reloadings.

About how many reloadings are you getting from AAs?

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2003, 07:24:30 PM »

Yup that's the more common of the two conditions and really the least troublesome. Get them hulls back and load them.

How many loads do I get? Heck I dunno. I never count. I have some old RP All American hulls from the late 50s or early 60s I'm still using. Those suckers have to have been loaded way over a dozen times. Maybe over 20 times. They are getting a bit ragged but because of the high base inside the hull they are superior for real light 12 ga. loads like 7/8 oz.

You should be able to easily get 8-10 reloads from AA hulls. Maybe more. When you start having to put candle wax on the end of the hull after you crimp it to make it stay closed you know you are geting down to the last 2-3 loads on that one. :-D Seriously if you don't know anyone who does that then you either know only rich folks are just ain't got enough shotgunning acquanances yet.

GB

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2003, 02:55:25 AM »

GB:

Done! I recovered them and will reload them. Thanks.

I actually threw out only 99 of the 100 and reloaded the 100th. The crimp looks reasonably secure.

Rudy

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2003, 03:31:17 AM »

Actually, I hadn't thought of candle wax. I'm so used to thinking in terms of epoxy, duct tape, and krazy glue, that it slipped my mind entirely.

On a more serious plane, I wonder why Lyman makes a blanket recommendation about 6 reloads. They say that it's because the crimps can get weak and that changes the ballistic properties of the shell. On the other hand, some hulls are better than others, so I suppose that this is just a rule of thumb-- kind of like the rules of thumb for metallic cartridges.

I notice that Remington now advertises that their good shells can be reloaded 10 times or more.

My attitude is that as long as they are safe, reliable, and perform well, then I should continue to use the hulls.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2003, 08:44:14 AM »

Yup that's my attitude and has been for many years.

I do believe it does change the ballistics of the loads somewhat when the crimp becomes really weak. BUT I've used shells loaded in this manner and sealed with candle wax as have most of the skeet shooters I know for many years. I've never yet lost a clay target I honestly felt was because of such a shell. I've missed one or two in my career :eek: :-D but never because of an altered ballistics from loading a hull too many times.

GB

Ka6otm · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2003, 06:45:20 AM »

I've always done as GB has done and I too felt that it didn't have any negative impact on my scores.

However, here's an interesting read that also backs up my opinion and others who believe you use a shell until it's unsafe:

The Hodgdon Shotshell Data Manual has an article about an experiment they did with a Remington Premier hull that they took through 15 reloads.

I won't bore you with the whole table but only reload 1 and reload 15. The results for pressure and velocity were more or less linear in nature.

Velocity Pressure
Reload 1: 1,154 FPS 11,100 PSI
Reload 15: 1,150 FPS 10,900 PSI

In the test, pinholes in the crimp appeared in reload #7, splits occured on reload #10 and the case split too much for further use at reload #15.

That about sums it up...

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2003, 07:52:06 AM »

Thanks, that's both illuminating and amusing. I'm delighted that there are some cases in which being a cheapskate has no negative consequences.

Ka6otm · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:07:02 PM »

Actually, there is one interesting little side note to my using a shell almost to the point of destruction:

I shoot a pretty high dollar O/U for trap, one not shot by a lot of people. People look at it a lot in the rack between rounds (but don't touch), then when they see me on the line carefully catching my frazzled-looking empties and putting them in my bag to be reloaded, they give me VERY strange looks.

I guess most folks with the high-dollar guns use new shells and sell or give away the empties.

I keep hoping one of them will say something, so I can come back with an answer like, yeah, I got the money to buy the gun by saving on my reloads...

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2003, 03:09:02 AM »

That sounds sensible to me. One of the fun things you (and I) can do is to go to a range that requires that all shells hitting the ground become property of the range. This would be a great place to shoot when the hulls are finally on their last shot. That will give the next owner something to be puzzled by.

I shoot 45ACPs to destruction. Usually the case splits vertically. I have no idea how many reloads it takes for it to happen. I've only had it happen twice.

rickyp · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2003, 04:07:24 PM »

you can get a spin doctor hall reconditioner. you just chuck it in your drill put it in the shell run the drill for a few seconds and the friction will help renew the hull mouth.

kciH · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2003, 03:28:04 PM »

Questor,
I took my sizemaster and 3 winchester compression formed hulls to some property of my dad's where I could light off a shotgun without getting into trouble. These where 16 ga dove and quail loads, but at that time they where the compression formed, low brass, hull that is no different from the AA's of the time. This was about 12 years ago, near as I can figure. They all went 15 times, and they all where played out by 18. I was loading a field level load and shooting them out of a light SxS, so my shoulder was pretty well done also. The hulls where pretty ratty after 15, but there was no problem reloading them. I still have 500 or so of these and they've all been loaded 5-6 times since then and are just fine.