I dont' think this is the right job for a rimfire, do you?

[dzrtram]

I am very, very new to varminting.  With me, it is born of a need.  I have a friend with a ranch.  Ground squirrels and all their cousins are wreaking havoc all over.  You can't drown or get rid of them by any way except shooting them.  Poison is not an option because of all of the other critters.
We are going to have to shoot them all (yeah, right!!)  They are very smart.  They must be shot from a distance.  .22 LR and Mag probably will not be sufficient on a target that small from the distance we have to shoot them at due to trajectory. Can't use .223 etc. due to neighbors bad attitude toward being shot.  
I know absoulutely nothing whatsoever about the .22 Hornet.  It looks like this caliber is right on at about 175-200 yards.  Is this caliber an option?  What about ammo cost, availability, etc.?
Any help you can be with recommendations, advice for or against anything, opitions in other calibers, the best rifle, or whatever, would be greatly appreciated.  
Thank you

[Ladobe]

In a word, the 17HMR is "THE" digger doer for the ranges you mentioned.   At this years Digger Wars (LDDR&VSO) that I host in northern Nevada each spring, around 2000 Belding ground squirrels fell in 3 1/2 days of shooting, with about 90% of them to the 17HMR's.   Consistent hits are easy out to 200 yards, and we took some past 300.    Followed that up with over 400 jackrabbits the next two nights at another ranch, all of them with the 17HMR's.    Now that the Hummer's have been out for over a year, gun prices have leveled out or even dropped and ammo is becoming easier to buy locally in most places.    Factory Hornet ammo is expensive, but 17HMR can be had from $8 shipped mail order to about $10 off the shelf with a little looking.    The hummer will be a little quieter than a Hornet and kill the diggers just as dead.

Digger Wars '03, Belding GS, CCI 17 TNT at 309 yards, Bullberry Hummer Carbine No 1.

[dzrtram]

I have a Savage 93R17.  I guess what I should have mentioned is the wind where we shoot.  I don't think the .17 has been bucking the wind at that distance very well, but you  know more than I do, for sure. :roll:
What rifle is that in the picture?
I have family in Las Vegas and go there often.  Are you near there.  Is there a shooting club my son can join where you shoot.  I'm over there so much I could join also, as well as my daughter.
Thanks for the input

[KN]

Gotta agree with Ladobe, I was shooting a 14" contender pistol at prarie dogs out to 200yds with out much trouble. Liked it so much I'm puting together a 23" Contender with a Lamanate thumbhole stock.(just for looks). Plan on taking it next year.  KN

[Ladobe]

I have a Savage 93R17.  I guess what I should have mentioned is the wind where we shoot.  I don't think the .17 has been bucking the wind at that distance very well, but you  know more than I do, for sure. :roll:
What rifle is that in the picture?
I have family in Las Vegas and go there often.  Are you near there.  Is there a shooting club my son can join where you shoot.  I'm over there so much I could join also, as well as my daughter.
Thanks for the input

   Well, step it up a little to buck the wind, go up in the 17's with a Mach 4 or 17 Rem... or get a 17 Ackley Hornet (will be one of the most fun guns you've ever owned - I have 3 of them - more planned).   Or, if the wind is real serious most of time for you, jump to a 6mm or 25 something.   6 TC/U, 6-223, or my favorite, 6X47.   You'd have to reload for all of these though.
   The rifle is the Bullberry 17HRM Carbine No. 1, the protptype built for me by Fred to do the first field testing with the new 17HMR when it first came out.   Fred was working with Hornady during its developement.  Stock set is exhibition to commemorate it being the first TC Hummer world-wide.
   Best overall private club in Sin City for handgun/rifle is Desert Sportsman out in the mouth of Red Rock Canyon.   All the disipines are shot there with monthly or more sanctioned competitions.   Best shotgun is still at Nellis.   Public range is Boulder City ($10/day I think), but they are also trying to build another big range north of town that will be state owbed/controlled that would include all shooting sports.   My boss is on that committee, so I get to kick in a lot of input on its construction.   Several indoor combat ranges as well in town.   I built my own 1000 yard range in a box canyon on the desert.
HTH - Ladobe

[redial]

I have much the same scenario as you described - gophers in areas surrounded by neighbors, stock, equipment and structures. I'll join the 17 HMR chorus on this one. That round fit my parameters PERFECTLY and it sounds like it's what you need too. The biggest plus for the 17 is the reduced likelihood (and consequences) of riccochet. Low noise is another.

I shoot a Hornet on the same ranch for much the same reasons and am still experimenting to find the most completely and reliably frangible .224 bullet. I can reload the Hornet for about half what 17HMR fodder costs.

Give 'em hell!

Redial

[dzrtram]

I do reload and I can keep one reloader all set up until I get a LOT of brass.  Do you know where the best place is to get brass, other than pick it up from the ground when others don't :wink:   Oh, yeah, and bullets too.
After all that I do want to mention I have a Savage R9317.  I agree about the lack of ricochet with that round, and I also agree that once I'm set up to reload, it's cheaper reloading the .22.  When the .17 first came out I could get a box of ammo for $9 or $10.  As soon as they saw it was going to become popular a box went up to $12.95.  That's here in Kommiefornia. I do see it on the internet now for something like $8.99.  Wonder if I can buy it in bulk for more savings.  I've been studying the ballistics of the Hornet, and it drops like a rock after 200 yards.  That's just exactly what I want, but I don't know the ballistics of the .17. Can you help me there at 100-300 yards?
Thanks for the input. :agree:

[redial]

The 17 pretty closely mimicks the Hornet's trajectory, if not exactly then closely in realistic terms. They have the same applications to my thinking, which is smaller pests and game animals in noise and impact sensitive environs.

I'm starting to see 17 ammo come down in price and become increasingly more available, but it's still much more than the Hornet. FWIW, I use 10 gr of 2400 behind any one of several bullets of 40 or so grains. This with a small pistol primer. My requirements are loose so I don't get persnickety about loading techniques or getting more speed. Minute of bursting gopher is all I need.

Redial

[dzrtram]

Redial,
What part of Montana are you in?  My son is building a home up there.  Where do you varmint hunt?  
Do you have any ballistics on the .17?
I've been getting a lot of suggestions to go with the .221 Fireball.  This is a caliber I know nothing about and see almost no rifles made for it. Do any of you recommend it?  I'm not sure why anyone would get into a caliber that is hard to find ammo and guns for, but maybe I'm wrong.

[redial]

Howdy!

I'm enjoying (and counting!) my blessings in western MT, in the Missoula area. Happily, I'm far enough from that college town to have rancher neighbors who need my pest and damage control efforts!

For rough 'ciphering, the 17 and my Hornet trajectories are as follows:

50 yards - @ 1/4" high
100 yards - zero
150 yards - 1.5" low
200 yards - 6 - 8" low
Beyond 200 - you still have some stalking to do.

Understand too that at 150 yards, a 10 mph full-value crosswind is good for about 8" of windage drift.  :shock:

The Fireball is a wonderful round but it is as you say, hard to get ammo for. I have too many .223's lying around to be able to justify a Fireball but if I had to start all over, I'd probably build one. Cute little booger.

Redial

[dzrtram]

Hi Neighbor,
Well, not actually.  My son has property near Anaconda.  He lives in Las Vegas, works in Los Angeles, and spends all the time he can fishing and hunting in Montana.  He got two calls this last Spring.  One guy called and told him a herd of elk knocked down his fences.  Then, a few weeks later another guy called and told him there were 113 sheep on his property (wild, not domestic).  As soon as the house is completed I will be spending as much time there as possible.
I like to be different. I would get the Fireball, or even the .218 Bee, if I could find a good deal on a rifle, and a bunch of brass and all the other componets to reload a few thousand.
One reason I would like a little bigger round than the .17 is because here in So. Cal. where I live, we have a 480 ranch in the mountains that is sometimes overrun with  feral dogs and coyotes.  These dogs are dangerous, and I don't want to shoot them with a .17, and a .223 is out of the question.  I like the way the .22 Hornet drops like a rock and poops out after 100 yards.  Just what I need to keep the neighbors alive.
Seems to me I started this all out with a question about a distance rifle, now I'm talking something else. Funny how conversations take a turn without you knowing it :roll:

[Ladobe]

Howdy!
I'm enjoying (and counting!) my blessings in western MT, in the Missoula area. Happily, I'm far enough from that college town to have rancher neighbors who need my pest and damage control efforts!...
Redial

Ah, Missoula.   For a heck of a lot of years I traveled there on business (all of western MT - actually all of the 16 western states incl. AK & Hi).   Usually flew into "M" or Kalispell, rented a vehicle and drove around the lake to get to the other one, with stops in Pablo along the way.   Stayed at the Red Lion across the river from the college until they built the Sheraton - both more often then not quick froze some trout for me.   Have friends that owned 1776 Antigues (I owned an antique store back then too as a side business).   Is the "Hole" still there just outside the city limits NW of town?   Came close to buying 20 acres on the Swan River, and another time 15 over near Hamilton... but decided the area was a "summer" area - the winters too cold and the snow too deep.    Two or three times a year I drove up to the area and spent a month hitting Butte, "M", Kalispell, Great Falls, Lewistown, Helena, Bozeman and then back down the Gallatin to Island Park, Yellowstone country and Jackson Hole.   Took a month to make the rounds due to all the great trout fishing and hunting.  :wink:  My boss never said a word.   Sure would like to wet a line at Three Forks and Big Springs again.  

BTW, I have 3 221FB's and love them almost as much as all my 17 wildcats.

[ak_rob]

O.K. Time to stir the pot after reading this everything you want is in the round you don't the .223
1)You wanted a round say 200 yards the .223 will do that

2)You wanted a round that won't riochet 40 gr. V-max or TNT will do that

3)You like the looks of the hornet the .223 will do that for half the cost if you reload as far as that goes the .223 is one of the cheapest rounds to shoot uncle sam has truck loads brass around.

4)You wanted a round for coyote's load it to full power and it will do a fine job.

If you want to do this on the cheap side here you go

Handi Rilfe 150.00 New or used
Scope  100.00
Reloading set up 150.00
Brass,Primers,Bullets,Powder 100.00

For a total of 500.00 give or take a little shop around for a good reloading set up.
Or get a T/C contender frame and it will shoot all the rounds in the above postings and more.

Well thats just my thoughts on it .

[dzrtram]

Well, somehow I "switched horses in mid stream".  When I first started asking questions I had a long distance caliber in mind.  Then all the guys got me interested in other things.  Now I guess I'm looking for two rifles.  One long distance, and one very short distance.
I have a Mini 14 I can use on the bigger varmints, i.e. feral dogs and coyotes.  But the Mini isn't accurate enough for small prarie dogs and squirrels at long distance.  I've asked around about the various gunsmiths who advertise that they can make a Mini a tack driver, Accuracy Rifle Systems, etc.  The responses were not positive.  What is it that makes the Mini 14 so inaccurate?  I thought it was the barrel.

The advice on the NEF was not positive either.  I've forgotten who makes the Handi Rifle

I like the way the .22 Hornet poops out after 100 yards.  I need that for one of my uses.

Thanks for the input.

O.K. Time to stir the pot after reading this everything you want is in the round you don't the .223
1)You wanted a round say 200 yards the .223 will do that

2)You wanted a round that won't riochet 40 gr. V-max or TNT will do that

3)You like the looks of the hornet the .223 will do that for half the cost if you reload as far as that goes the .223 is one of the cheapest rounds to shoot uncle sam has truck loads brass around.

4)You wanted a round for coyote's load it to full power and it will do a fine job.

If you want to do this on the cheap side here you go

Handi Rilfe 150.00 New or used
Scope  100.00
Reloading set up 150.00
Brass,Primers,Bullets,Powder 100.00

For a total of 500.00 give or take a little shop around for a good reloading set up.
Or get a T/C contender frame and it will shoot all the rounds in the above postings and more.

Well thats just my thoughts on it .

[les hemby]

handi rifle will surprise you. dont think because it is cheap it's not good. my son has 223 and 243 these are very accurate rifles. i am going to get him a 17hmr for his birthday. for the money this is a best buy. i doubt if out of box remington will out-shoot them. they may be the same but they wont out-shoot them. T/C has more class, but i dont think ground squirrel will care much. i would agree with accuracy of mini 14 mine throws an ok pattern

[dzrtram]

Your opinion seems to be shared by the majority of people who don't want a "pretty" rifle with all the bells and whistles they can get.  Personally, I stick to Savage, Marlin, and any other inexpensive rifle.  I'd like to see someone outshoot my Savage .17HMR, or my Marlins, within reasonable distance.  I have a total of $256 into my Savage .17HMR, scope and all.  I don't even have to replace the trigger to be accurate.  The only reason my son can outshoot me with his Anschutz and Zeiss scope, is because he has young eyes and is a better shot.  If he took my Savage and I took his Anschutz, he would still do better.  
Thanks for the input.  I now have enough positive opinions to go ahead and buy one.
 :grin:

handi rifle will surprise you. dont think because it is cheap it's not good. my son has 223 and 243 these are very accurate rifles. i am going to get him a 17hmr for his birthday. for the money this is a best buy. i doubt if out of box remington will out-shoot them. they may be the same but they wont out-shoot them. T/C has more class, but i dont think ground squirrel will care much. i would agree with accuracy of mini 14 mine throws an ok pattern

[les hemby]

savage is another fine rifle like you i do not want a pretty gun just accurate.my guns are tools if i happen to need a boat paddle thats why i prefer synthetic.