jhp vs jsp

[jhm]

I personally would carry the one that was the most accurate all that other stuff dont matter if you cant hit what you are shooting at.  You might try a 125 jhp and see if its as accurate as the 125 jsp but whichever you decide on practice to be comfortable with it.   JIM

[DEPUTY]

most of the time the trouble with snubbies is that there is not enough barrel length to generate load velocity's to ensure reliable expansion of loads! jsp might as well be as efective as jhp in most defenseive situations due to clothing types fired into  try it sometimes! in the south i dont really think you have a much to worry to about with multix layers of heavy clothing as we do in north states,  but dont get me wrong i still dont want to get shot with either load! i would go for the most accurate load! period! try some wet phone books for test media not the best but a good indicator!!  good luck stay safe

[DEPUTY]

no trouble cknight, i would lok into rbcd ammo .com out of texas i have been using there ammo for a while now ! trust me look at and then tell me what you think! you in for a suprise

[Mikey]

ck:  Deputy is right about hollowpoints not always opening up from the barrel of a snubbie, as they often don't get to the velocity level needed for that.  Also, whether it is a hp or a soft nose I really don't think you're getting your money's worth from a 125 grain 38 that clocks less than or right around a thousand '/sec.  You could do better with a 9mm and almost as good with a 380.

One of the most reliable rounds ever to come out a 38 snubbie is the old standard velocity 158 grain semiwadcutter.  The semiwadcutter bullet will not fill up with clothing and fail to expand, will not expand on heavy clothing and fail to penetrate sufficiently.  It just drives into the target.  

Lots of folks look for the magic load that will take the 38 Special from a 68-70% one shot fight stopper to a 100 percenter - might not happen even with the jhps or jsps.  Under all conditions, heavy clothing, no clothing, etc., you want the bullet to drive through to the vitals or break bone to take the opponent down.  Two or three loads do that from a 38 - the 158 grain semiwadcutter at standard factory pressures/velocities, the 168 grain semiwadcutter at the same or slightly less velocity, and the 200 grain round nose/semiwadcutter at about 770'/sec.  

Now, you say 'Gee, that's really a slow moving brick'.  Yep, shor is.  My lawyer and I ran some penetration tests on the 200 grain SWC at 770 (factory load) and found that it penetrated better than any of the other 38 loads.

You mentioned that you were concerned about over penetration and innocent victims.  You are one right thinkin' dude Mister and I appreciate your concern but, I don't think that becomes an issue with even the heavy 38 loads.

Your Taurus is a well built and accurate revolver.  Even the 200 grainers are only at factory pressure levels and very easy to shoot.  That milk jug at 50 yds is too large a target for those loads, you might have to move the coke bottle out to that distance.  This load will also handle any 4 footed nuisances you have to deal with, very effectively.

If you or someone you know reloads, try some of those heavier bullets and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  This is one of my favorite topics and I hope this helps.  Mikey.

[Mikey]

ck:  You're right Buddy, I do like the 200 grain SWCs.  That's the only bullet I use in either my 38s or 357s.  Winchester has a great load for that bullet in the 357 with 12.4 grains of 296 for 1335'/sec with only 35,000psi.  That's an easy shooting whopper.  It's nice and accurate from any of the 357s I've shot.  

The same bullet over 4.3 of WW231 gives you only 770'/sec in a test gun (whatever it was), but more like 700 from a snubbie.  With the SWC I am not as worried about over penetration as I would be with a round nose slug, and there are also round nose flat points in that weight available.  The RNFP might be a better choice for quicker reloads in a snubbie as they seem to address the chambers more easily than that big ol flat nosed SWC.  The RNFPs also have a healthy looking metplat on them and i would not hesitate to carry those bullets either.

You are so correct to be concerned about over penetration.  God absolutely forbid that we ever need something like this to defend ourselves with not to mention the possibility of knocking over some innocent grandmother coming out of a market across the street during the confrontation.  I saw that happen once in Peoria, Illinois during the mid-sixites when City Police Officers were allowed to carry their sidearm of choice.  An Officer was using a 4" 41 magnum and fired two shots into a bank robber at about 20 yds.  Both bullets penetrated clean through - one winged an older man, on a cane, walking down the street behind the bank robber and the other bullet disappeared somewhere.  The older fella didn't understand that he had been winged and just stood there until someone came to help him.  He actually thought it was pretty nifty that he had been wounded in a bank robbery.  I had trouble trying to swallow my stomach back down and still worry about things like that even today.

But, the 38 special from a snubbie is certainly not a 41 magnum.  That 200 grain load, in a round nose from a British 38-200 or the old S&W 38 will penetrate but I doubt it would over penetrate that badly.  Col. Charles Askins once wrote of an encounter during WWII when he used a 38-200 against a German soldier trying to run away from him - he shot the soldier in the back at about 25 yds, as the story goes, and Askins found later that the bullet had penetrated clean through - pretty good for a 38.  Askins also preferred the 200 grain load in a 38 Special when he wasn't using a 45 with ball ammo.  In addition, the NYC Police Dept. found that although the 200 grain load produced adequate stopping power it was not accurate and would not penetrate car bodies.

Personally I think it is a waste of time to try and shoot a car with a 38, regardless of the load you are using but, these 38 loads and the 357s are quite accurate.  The 38 load clusters into a one-hole group at 25m from a couple of snubbies that have fired it.  From my 3.75 inch S&W Model 27/28 the 357s are accurate enough for whitetail out to 50 yds.  

My attorney and I ran some penetration tests on those 38 loads - actually, the round nose flat point loads.  I doubt the SWCs would penetrate further.  The medium was bound wet newspaper at about 10 paces.  A standard 38 158gr SWC reload penetrated about 4 inches.  A hot loaded 38 with the same bullet penetrated about an inch further.  The 200 grain RNFP penetrated a maximum of 6 inches.  A 9mm 115gr fmj penetrated about halfway between the 158 grn 38s.  A 7.62x25mm penetrated a full 9 inches in that medium.  For sure I would be more concerned about overpenetration with my Tokarev than my 38 snubbie.

Wet newspaper or phone books are a real good medium.  The last time I used a phone book with a 38, it went all the way through to John Eastman.  Hope he didn't mind.

Hope this helps.  This be Mikey.

[NeverQuit]

Try this URL http://www.rbcd.net/

[leadbutt]

ck, try the old FBI load the 158 grain soft lead hollow point,I have found more two inch guns that will shoot to point of aim with that load then others,handloads are fine for practice but don't carry them for self defense

If you don't like those try some of the newer Federal or Winchester Personel defense loads.