I shot my KP-1 45-70 today

[xhare]

I took the day off and went to Knob Creek Gun Range (south of Louisville KY) today to put some rounds downrange.  My main goal was to sight in the scope I had recently put on my stainless KP-1 45-70.  It took some time to get it to settle down and I went through about 30 rounds of heavy and light reloads before I realized that I had to retighten my scope base (Talley).  My scope is an older Bausch & Lomb that I picked up used on a Browning 1885 in the early 90's. 

The groups shown were shot with LEVERevolution 45-70 ammo.  It works great.  My reloads all made the gun hard to open after firing.  I think that was because the brass has been shot a bunch, and in my Handi 45-70.  Brass fired in one gun, reloaded and then fired in another could be the cause of this problem.  The brass has never been trimmed either.  The Hornady ammo caused no such problems and the barrel just opened under its own weight once I hit the release button. 

The picture shows two 4 shot groups, the second was after some adjustment.  As I stated earlier, this is after I had been though a good bit of heavy loads already, plus an additional 20 rounds of 303 British, and 40 rounds of  8mm mauser (it was a really good day).  I think the KP-1 is capable of better if I was up to the task. 

[xhare]

Ok I cant figure out how to post a pic. 

Help please?

[Underclocked]

You are attempting to link a picture that is on your computer.  http://c/Documents%20and%20Settings/Wendi%20Kelley/Desktop/IMG_0774.jpg  just won't work. 

You must first upload that picture to a web host.  Then your url will look something like http://yaddayadda.com/imgyadda.jpg

I often use http://www.tinypic.com/  as it is quick and easy as well as requiring no registration.  Simply browse to your picture's location, select it, then click upload.  A tiny version of your pic will then show.  You can click that small picture to see a larger image, sometimes a 2nd time will show an even larger image (never bigger than the original).

You then need the url of the image.  That is presented to you there at TinyPic but you can also get the url of a picture on the web by right clicking the image, then left click on Properties.  Copy the url shown in the properties box.   It must end with an image extension such as .jpg or .gif (the most commonly used).

Once you have the url copied, in your post here at GB - click the image icon and paste in the url.   Preview your post to make sure all is well. 

[xhare]

Lets give this a shot then......



That worked!


As you can see, the 2nd group was around an inch.  If I was not already beaten up a bit, and I had a higher power scope, I believe a smaller group is possible.  In short this is the best I could do, the rifle could do better. 


Oh, thanks for the help Underclocked!

[Underclocked]

You're welcome.   I've no experience shooting .45-70 but that looks like about 7 dead buffalo to me.   

[Ranger J]

How does the accuracy of this gun compare to that of your Handi?

RJ

[xhare]

So far their accuracy seems to be about the same.  The single best group I have ever fired (from any rifle) came out of my Handi 45-70.  It was a 3 shot group that could be completely be covered with a nickel, about 1/2 inch.  1 inch at 100 yards was more normal for my Handi.  More importantly I was able to achieve that with several loads.  My Handi liked most bullets tried in it except the Speer 350 grain semi-spitzer.   My Handi really loved the 350 grain Hornady roundnose.

The Knight seems to have the same potential, but I have not tried to many different loads in it.  By time I got my scope dialed in, my shoulder was mostly spent as was much of my ammo.  I have a nice bruise to show for my efforts.  Thats ok though, its the GOOD kinda pain. 

Oh, I won't be chasing buffalo anytime soon, but come November, the deer had better beware.  I need to adjust the scope up a bit, but otherwise I am set.

[xhare]

One more thing, that would be 8 dead buffalo, both of those groups are 4 shot groups.  2 shots hit very close together in group 1 making one slightly oversize hole (the bottom hole).

[Underclocked]

    guess we know why my shooting has gone south.   

[xhare]

I have recently learned of something that may be causing my sticky barrel opening.  As I stated earlier, the LE 45-70 ammo functioned wonderfully and the barrel opened easily after firing while my reloads all had sticky opening (even the lower pressure loads).  I had attributed this to my reloads using brass that has been fired many times in my Handi-rifle. 

I recently found out that LE 45-70 ammo is about .060-.080 inches shorter than standard 45-70 brass.  So now I am wondering what the problem really is. 
Could be...
1.  Short chamber
2.  Powder buildup in chamber in area not covered by shorter LE case
3.  Or my first assessment was correct to begin with.

My next step will be to do some measuring of my empties to see how they compare to SAAMI specs.  If that is no help, then I may have to purchase another brand of factory ammo to see how it performs. 

I may wait till after deer season as my rifle is sighted in for the LE ammo anyway.  That way if it needs to go back to the factory, I won't miss my season.   

[Scorpion210]

In one of my conversations with a Knight tech recently, I was told that Knight used the Hornady Leverevolutuon and the Federal ammunition while testing the KP1 prior to the guns hitting the market. I had misfiring issues with the Leverevolution. I just received my gun back and will be re-sighting in this weekend. They test fired after the repair using the Leverevolution with no problems.

You could be having a headspace issue. Have you contacted Knight yet?

[Swampman]

Since the .45-70 headspaces on the rim, I can't see why short cases would cause a problem.

[xhare]

I have sent an email, from their website, and have had no reply as yet. 

Since the .45-70 headspaces on the rim, I can't see why short cases would cause a problem.
Posted on: Yesterday at 01:47:55 PMPosted by: Scorpion210 

I dont believe that is is a head space issue, but I could be wrong.  I could see where a headspace problem could lead to misfiring. 

The short cases work great.  My thought is that perhaps a normal 45-70 case is a hair too long for the chamber and is bumping into the leade, at least after firing.  The front of the case is crimped into the bullet.  It could be that with a normal case, once it is fired the crimped portion opens up, but wedges into the leade a bit. 

I hope to put a caliper to my cases this evening.  I'll get back with you when I do. 

[xhare]

I measured 4 cases for each type and took an average.  Here are my measurements. 

Once fired Hornady factory loads:               avg 2.0345 in
Many times loaded Remington nickel plated:  avg 2.0975 in
Many times loaded Winchester :                 avg 2.101 in
Unfired Winchester brass:                          avg 2.103 in

All non-Hornaday brass was within specs.  My Hornady manual states a trim to length of 2.095 and a max length of 2.105.  So I dont know why the standard length brass did not work. Seems like the chamber is short.  I can't think of another reason for the problem. 

I will purchase for factory loads of 45-70 that are made of proper length of brass and see how they function. 

[Underclocked]

xhare, check your messages. 

[xhare]

Got it, thanks.  I'll have to give them a call.