Accessory barrel program

[lendar]

I bought a 223 handi a while back.  The plan was to put a 3006 barrel on it.  That didn't work as the frame was older (NL).  So I looked on the list and felt a 45 colt barrel would be nice.  I sold the 223 barrel as I already have 2 of them.  I called H&R and was told a 45 colt barrel could not be fitted to an older frame.  A 223 barrel or a 44 Mag, among others, could be fitted but not the 45 colt.  I asked the reason for this and was told "company policy" Does this make sense to anyone, if it does would you please explain it to me. 

[quickdtoo]

The 45 Colt barrel isn't marked with an asterisk, I think you were told wrong, or they've changed their standards for the older frame. Or, they're concerned about Casull rechambers. I'd call and ask again, this would be a good time to ask for Gordon and maybe get your other questions answered.

Tim

[lendar]

I called twice, talked to different  females each time.  I thought the first one was wrong but the 2nd one said the exact same thing.  I just don't understand.

[quickdtoo]

You're gonna have to talk to Gordon, he's the only one that's gonna have answers for ya.

Tim

[lendar]

Sir, you were right.  I needed to talk to Gordon and I did.  I now understand everything.  I am so glad you said to call him.  Anyway the old frames and the new frames are the same.  There are some internal changes but the basic frames are the same.  The new frame is not any stronger than the old one.  They don't put the newer barrels on the old frames as they are harder to fit due to the internal changes.  The reason the 45 colt was stopped, on old frames, was due to misfires.  Then I asked, Is an asterisk  barrel mounted at home safe on an old frame and he said, no.  He said no barrel, on any frame,  is safe unless it is factory mounted.  That clears up everything for me. 

[LONGTOM]

Being the way the world is today I wouldn't exspect him to say anything else for fear of a law suit somewhere down the line.

LONGTOM

[lendar]

I agree with you.  He would never say its safe to put your own barrels on.  But if its done like the directions say its just as safe as if it was done in the factory.  The important part for me is that the frames are the same and the old frame is not somehow weaker than the new one.

[quickdtoo]

That doesn't agree with what Gordon has told other members here in the past and no one has ever reported misfires with 45 Colt barrels, myself included, the only issue that has been reported is the extractor being too tall and causing hard removal of the spent case.

I've also never had an issue with older/newer barrels and frames not fitting each other, the older frames have the same intermals as newer frames with the exception of the change in ejector posts in '99, older barrels had fat posts compared to '99 and later posts.

More later. 

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Gordon must have misunderstood your question lendar, it's totally different that what he's told us before.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,125890.msg1098447302.html#msg1098447302

I have a pre98 hadndi.Was told by NEF the frame is different than new version.Anyone fitted a astrisk
marked barrel to one of these?

Some have...but...the frames are different and not strong enough to have the*  NEF barrels put on them..This is straight from Gordon of NEF...so..stay with the none high pressure barrels...or get a newer NEF SB-2 frame...

Mac

[lendar]

Gordon understood my question perfectly.  All the things I wrote were just what he said.  And it makes sense to me.  The older frames have lots of the asterisk barrels on them.  He also said if you have an older frame with a say 243 barrel on it, they will put another 243 barrel on it.  That is what happened to one of my older frames.  It would be nice if Gordon or H&R would clear this up in writing but I don't think that's going to happen.  But I can tell you what I am going to do, I am going to put my asterisk barrel on my older frame and shoot the devil out of it.

[JonD.]

I bought a 223 handi a while back.  The plan was to put a 3006 barrel on it.  That didn't work as the frame was older (NL).  

Today I looked at a NH model Handi Rifle in 30-06 at a local pawn shop. It was an ejector barrel, and from the looks of it, this was the original barrel on the gun.  It doesn't make sense that older Handis were made with higher pressure calibers, but they won't fit one to this receiver. Maybe this wasn't the original barrel?

The pallet wood stock on this gun was in rough shape, and the blueing was faded, the guy had a tag of $229 on it. I asked what the least he would take was and he said $200. This seemed a little high to me considering the shape it was in, and I was really wanting a 1999 or newer. What do you guys think?

[quickdtoo]

That's  too much for a common chambering on an old frame Jon, if it was a 7x57 or one of the rare chamberings, that would be different. Bud's sells new Handis for less that $250 shipped, and Ultras for about $290. 

Tim

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_351

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_262

[JonD.]

Thanks Tim, I thought it was too high. I might go back and offer him $150 for it(and I'm not sure if I want to give this much for it-- was thinking about a cheap stub project gun)   Thanks for the link!! This store is only 1.5 hr drive away!!

[Mac11700]

Gordon understood my question perfectly.  All the things I wrote were just what he said.  And it makes sense to me.  The older frames have lots of the asterisk barrels on them.  He also said if you have an older frame with a say 243 barrel on it, they will put another 243 barrel on it.  That is what happened to one of my older frames.  It would be nice if Gordon or H&R would clear this up in writing but I don't think that's going to happen.  But I can tell you what I am going to do, I am going to put my asterisk barrel on my older frame and shoot the devil out of it.

Bologna...

I really doubt Gordon told you this...In all of the years I have known him...this question has been brought up countless times in our conversations of some of the dumb things folks try to do or want done.They won't replace any of the high pressure older barrels on any non SB2 rifle frame...period...All of the pre  NEF frames are in this category...as well as all pre NEF barrels... All of the older frames were heat treated differently...and some were made out of a different alloy composition..NEF won't fit any high pressure barrels to these...wither it had one on it to begin with...to do so would be opening up a Pandora's box of problems...Ask the folks who have tried to have a different HP barrels added to a 98  RMEF rifle...Sheeese

Mac

[lendar]

If you really know him that well then pick up the phone and call him. I don't know why you would call me a liar with out checking, that's rude.  I personally had a 243 bull barrel put on an older frame that was an original 243.  This was 2 years ago.  So your statement about that is not true.  Your statement about the older frames not being up to snuff is very interesting.  If that statement was true than every older frame with an asterisk  barrel would be unsafe.  And I believe that a pile of them are around and being shot every day.  Maybe Gordon did tell you what you said he did but call him back and see what he says now.

[Mac11700]

If you really know him that well then pick up the phone and call him. I don't know why you would call me a liar with out checking, that's rude.  I personally had a 243 bull barrel put on an older frame that was an original 243.  This was 2 years ago.  So your statement about that is not true.  Your statement about the older frames not being up to snuff is very interesting.  If that statement was true than every older frame with an asterisk  barrel would be unsafe.  And I believe that a pile of them are around and being shot every day.  Maybe Gordon did tell you what you said he did but call him back and see what he says now.

I really don't need to call him back on it...NEF states they won't upgrade an older frame with a newer high pressure barrel..and I stand by what Gordon himself has told me about doing this...The composition of the older frames can't be changed...and I really doubt they are going to take on the liability of doing what your saying they supposedly will do now...like I said...that would open a Pandora's box for them if they did...I suggest you call him back and verify your story..maybe he can e-mail you...that way if it doesn't make sense to you...you could post it here so we can help you understand it better..

Mac

[quickdtoo]

Ok, I just got off the phone with Gordon, he stated that the older late 80's to possibly the early to mid 90's frames aren't as strong as modern frames, but wasn't sure when the strength improvements were made, apparently changes in strength were made in steps over the years, but he had no year of manufacture that he could definitely say when the heat treating and strength was improved. Other changes that occurred over the years were manufacturing tolerances, which brings us to the 45 Colt which is supposed to have an asterisk on it due to the fact that all new chambering offerings will only be fitted to '992000 and later frames, regardless if they're high pressure or not, the misfire issues lendar mentioned would be due to the tolerances and changes in specs of current barrels that aren't compatible with pre '99 frames, not that they've had misfire issues, just that they could due to the differences.

He also stated that a defective barrel and/or frame made 1987 or later would be replaced, as in lendar's case, a 243 barrel with a 243 barrel., but that any other chambering, even tho a high pressure offering, would not be fitted as an accessory barrel. Considering the stated warranty on an H&R is 2 years, that's still a very generous unwritten policy!!

I asked specifically about shooting factory ammo in pre '99 high pressure chamberings such as the '96 RMEF 35 Whelen, and he stated they are perfectly safe to do so, reading between the lines here and offering an opinion, I believe that to mean safe in that there will be no catasrophic failure, but due to the fact that we know actions will loosen up over time on some high pressure chamberings, the older frames, particularly the oldest of the double prefix serial numbered frames, may not hold up to those chambering as well as a modern frame.

Thanks to lendar, Mac and Gordon, maybe the muddy water has been cleared up a little since all that has been stated is true to a degree, it's just not exactly cut and dried as to when it's true!!

Tim