Trail Boss Perfect Powder Measure question

[Ranger J]

The Lee Perfect Powder measure is calibrated using what they call the VMD or the volume of one grain of gunpowder in cubic centimeters.  This number is multiplied times the # of GRs to find the correct setting for this measure.  As Trail Boss is a new powder I can not find the VDM for it in the Lee 2nd edition reloading book or in the chart that came with the Perfect Powder measure.  Does anyone know what this number would be for Trail Boss?  I am wanting to use this powder to load some cast loads for my .44mag Handi and my 45/70 handi and 1895 Marlin.

RJ

[charles p]

Need a scale.

[Lloyd Smale]

most definitely. A scale should be the first thing a loader buys! Id never trust any written data on the charge weights of a measure. Especially metering something like trail boss which is an odd powder and very bulky. I will trust my measure but not until ive weighted at least 10 consecutive charges and know there where i want them and are staying consistant. .

Need a scale.

[Ranger J]

Yes, I know I could weigh out each and every load.  For those of you who who do not use the Perfect Powder measure the way it is calibrated is that Lee has  assigned each powder an index number and you multiply this number times the number of Grs. that you want to shoot.  This gives you the number that you set on the drop tube.  Your measure comes with a list of about 50 or so powders and their index numbers.  Trail Boss is so new that it was not on this list.  I also looked at the list on the Lee web page and it has not been placed on that list yet. 

Example:  The index number for Blue dot is .08650.  If I want to shoot 13.1GR. I take that times .08650 and this gives me approximately 1.13.  1.13 is the number I need to dial the drop tube to meter that weight of Blue Dot.  I was hoping that someone had determined the 'number' for Trail Boss.  Trail Boss is rumored to meter very well.

RJ

[woodchukhntr]

So that is what those numbers are for!  I must have missed that somewhere.  I love the measure, it has not yet let me down.  I've got an older RCBS, but don't use it since I bought the Lee a long time ago.  It only takes a minute or 2 to set it without the numbers anyway.

[Ranger J]

If you have the Lee manual (either addition) it gives you the settings but if you are taking a weight of powder from another manual that is when you need to use the index numbers.

RJ

[Graybeard]

We understand how it is SUPPOSED to work. What you are being told is that it's foolish to ASSUME it REALLY WORKS THAT WAY. If you don't at least check the weight on a scale from time to time you have absolutely no clue what charge is really being dropped. Shotshell loaders work the same way and I've yet to see one that dropped within a grain of what it was supposed to drop. If you don't have a scale to double check your powder charges from time to time you really shouldn't be loading and for sure not much more than minimum charges.

[Ranger J]

Yes I do have a scales I check with.  Now that that has been established, there are several ways I can go about coming up with the index number.  I can look up a recommended load weight, say 4gr and by trial and error dispense powder through the drop tube at different settings until I find a setting that will drop the recommended weight, in this case 4 GR..  Again what I was hoping was that someone else had used this powder in this measure and had already determined the multiplier number for this powder that would get me to the starting point.  Lee lists another way on their web page for determining the index number for any powder but as I will not be using this powder for a while and won't have time to reloading anything for a while I was hoping  someone out there had already done some of my 'homework' for me on this powder.

RJ

[Chris Potts]

Its pretty simply algebra.  If the desired powder weight multiplied by the VMD equals the setting

                weight x VMD = setting       13.1 x .0865 = 1.13  (bluedot according to your numbers)

The VMD will be equal to the setting divided by the weight

               setting / weight = VMD        1.13 / 13.1 = .0865

All you need to do is set your measure to any number, throw 10 changes and average them.  Divide the setting number by the powder weight and that will give you the VMD. 


For example (I am making these numbers up for demonstration  purposes) if you set the measure to 1.0 and it throws 4.5 grs of trailboss.
You will take 1.0 divide it by 4.5 and your VMD would be .22222222.

             setting / weight = VMD          1.0 / 4.5 = .222222

I think Graybeard is right that you would do well to double check your measure every time you change the setting just in case (especially with max loads).

[Ranger J]

Ah yes, that is the kind of help I was looking for.  Of course all loads are checked at start with the scales.  This will give me something to start with when I can sit still long enough to actually weigh some powder.  For the next few days I will be as busy as a paper hanger with the hives, so to say.  Thanks again for the suggestion.  After all these years I have found a use for algebra.   Who would have thunk it?

RJ

[stimpylu32]

For what its worth , i have 2 Lee PPM's and use them constantly , one is set for my go-to load in 223 and the other for everything else , every time i get a new bottle of powder the first thing i do is to check the VMD and mark it on the bottle with a Sharpie .

This saves a ton of timewhen setting the measure but still use the scale on about every 10th drop or if it does not look right .

stimpy

[Savage]

Yeah, I have a Lee PPM myself.  I can set mine using a scale before I can find the chart!  
Savage

[Ranger J]

Hopefully I have my ducks all in a row.  After measuring several weights of Trail Boss I came up with the VMD of .2262 for my container of Trail Boss.  This number put me close to any number I dialed on the Perfect measure.  Close enough to fine tune the actual load on the scales anyway.  At first this number seemed a little large until I remembered that Trail Boss is primarily a very bulky powder to be used with old black powder cases with cast bullets for slow loads.    It is so bulky that in most cases it is impossible to double charge the cartridge or at least to make it highly unlikely.  I ran a load of 14 GR Trail Boss, (3.16 on the drop tube on the measure)  and sure enough I would not be able to load two measures.  I am wanting to try this load in my 45/70 with a 300 cast bullet.  In the Hodgdon's 2007 reloading magazine it lists a beginning load of 14GR Trail Boss under a 300 cast bullet for 1199fps.  Just looking for something mild to shoot.

RJ

[kmystry]

According to the LeePrecision site, the VMD for Trail Boss is .2172
That info was found here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD'S.pdf
You gotta have an Adobe Reader to read this.
I'm using Lee dippers with Trail Boss and this is the number I use to do my calculations to load for 125 gr. LRNFP in .38 Special.

[Ranger J]

Thanks, I weighed out 14gr loads into five cases with 300gr Laser cast bullets.  At 50 yards four went in ragged hole in bull's eye and one pulled off about 1 1/2 inches  Now if someone has a good load for .44 mag 240 gr cast.

 Just found one on the THR Handloading forum.  6gr Trailboss for 240gr cast as a starting load.

RJ