New to loading Win. 25-20

[rick54]

Hello, I recently acquired a model 1892 Winchester 25-20 made in 1918. I'd prefer to hand load to purchasing factory ammunition. Therefore, my plan is to use the Dillon model 550B press along with the Redding, 3 die set, in this caliber. As a first timer at reloading rifle cartridges, I'm asking for your help on the correct set-up I'll need. I do have some Remington new brass and Speers 75g. JFP bullets coming.

I'm a little confused as to if I also need separate dies for neck sizing and crimping since I've read various comments on the issue of the neck thinness material of this casing. I also did read an article on using a Nexpander tool, which the author seemed to think, was a necessity to reload this shell. Unfortunately, the company that produced this tool appears to no longer be in business.
I appreciate your consideration to my above plan and any other advice you can offer.

[Graybeard]

'Tis true the Nexpander tool is no longer available as they did close the doors on that company. Dennis Smith the CEO of it used to hang around here some but the last few times I sent someone his way to see if any left over stock was still avialable it wasn't. You can do the same thing tho with any properly sized round punch. Really all the Nexpander amounts to is a double ended punch with a handle in the middle. It is sized so it works on cases from .223" to about .45" just fine. Before I got it I used round punches.

The Lyman "M" dies do about the same thing. But if you're loading jacketed bullets it would surprise me if it's really needed but ya never know. I've long wanted an M92 in .25-20 but never run across one I could afford yet. I'm toying with having my Rossi M92 .357 Magnum converted to .25-20.

Please let us know how it shoots when you get the ammo loaded up and have shot it.

[rick54]

I'd like to clarify my question some.
 I'm considering the Dillon 550B press along with the Redding 3 die set in 25-20. I've also obtained a Lee factory crimp die in the same caliber off ebay.  Is the above combination adequate in getting me started on reloading my 25-20 casings?

[Graybeard]

That's a question for someone other than me. I have zero experience with the Dillon equipment and same can be said for Lee dies. I just don't use either.

The Redding die set should do just fine I've used Redding dies and they work just fine in every chambering I've tried them in so I am confident they will work. How they will do in conjunction with the Dillon tho I have no clue never having used an automated press before. I use ONLY single stage presses made by RCBS and Hornady.

I've never used any of the Lee dies of any sort much less their factory crimp dies. Some folks seem to like them I do not like the idea of them. The crimp some factories use on their cases that the Lee die is intended to duplicate to me ruins the end of the case. I hate reloading cases that have been so crimped by the factory and generally have not had good luck with them until they've grown enough so I can trim that factory crimp off. There is no way I'd even consider the idea of adding it back to my personal ammo. Still many do and claim to be happy with it so you might be also.

[rick54]

Fair enough Graybeard. I'll wait to some if some other folks can chime in on this combination. The only item I've purchased so far is the Lee FCD, so I'm not out much at this point if I'm looking at a bad combination of equipment.
It seems 25-20 components and equipment are a little scarce in the selection department, but since I have this gun now for my groundhog, coon and skunk problems around the house, I'd like to take advantage of its use. Told the wife I'm not going to live trap anymore skunks this year!

[BIG Dog454]

The 25-20 is an easy to reload cartridge, I use a old herters 2 die set and have had no problems.  Lee dies are very similar to the herters so you should have no problems.  I would think that the Dillon press would be overkill for this little cartridge unless you are planning on shooting thousands of rounds, but they are a fine press.  With loading jacketed bullets I have never had to expand the case mouth.  Hornady makes a fine jacked 60 grain bullet that I have found to work well on groundhogs and coons, don't know about skunks. My powder of choice for the 25-20 is 2400, but there are other suitable powders depending on availability.

[rick54]

Yes sir Big Dog, I believe my research calls for 7gr. of 2400 powder for that bullet.

[LaOtto222]

I have not used a Dillon press either. I am still using a RCBS single stage press that I have had for a long time. Since you are just starting out, I would suggest getting a good quality single stage press. Once you understand how reloading works, the ins and outs of adjusting dies and load development, you could get a Dillon to speed up the reloading process. You could still use your single stage press for load development for other cartridges or experimenting with your 25-20 after getting the Dillon. Once I have the cases prepped and primed, I can load 75 -100 rounds/hour in my single stage press. Of course a Dillon will spew them out much faster doing the priming along the way. As far as the dies are concerned I have both RCBS and Lee dies. I can not tell the difference in quality of the reloads when finished. The RCBS dies finished/look better than the Lee dies, but the end result is the same. There are 2 kinds of Lee FCD. There is the type that squeezes down the neck as Graybeard has described and then there is a carbide roll crimp type too. The squeeze type are used on bottle neck cartridges and the carbide roll crimp on straight walled cases. I just checked, and the 25-20 is a squeeze type. I have not had a lot of experience with the Lee FCDs, I have just recently got one for the 22 Hornet. I have found that the when using jacketed bullets with the thin neck of the 22 Hornet, it straightens out the neck like it was new again. you can see slight marks, but the case mouths seem to be perfectly round once I have run them through a neck sizer or full length sizer. I do not know how they would work on thicker necks. You can adjust the amount of crimp you get too. A slight one or heavy, depending on what you want and die adjustment. Of course since you have a lever action you do want some kind of crimp. I do believe the Redding dies have a built in crimp in the seater die. With jacketed bullets I would just put a chamfer on the inside of the case neck and not worry about belling the mouth. If you were loading up cast bullets, you want to bell the mouth slightly so you do not shave lead when seating the bullet. You said you were going to get a loading manual. If it is from one of the big bullet making houses, it will give you reloading tips and how to set your dies. Good Luck and good shooting.

[GregP42]

Rick,

I have a Dillon 550 press, and I would only recommend it if you are going to do high volume reloading. I use mine for .41 mag,  32-20 and .223 mostly. I used to use it for .45 ACP and .40 S&W but don't shoot a .40 anymore and don't shoot the .45 in competition anymore. I am with Bill, unless you shoot a lot I would go with a single station press, I use one of those too for rounds that I do not go through a whole lot of in a match.

Greg

[Blowtorch53]

Hey Rick,

I have a Marlin .25-20 and I love it.  I need to really work on the handloads though because I haven't shot it enough yet to tune it.  I like the 86 gr. cast gas check.  I load with Lee dies also and they work great.  I'm not familiar with your setup but loading any type of rifle round is easy.  The only trick to the .25-20 is to not get too aggressive with the crimp.  Their small and very fragile.  I crimp separately but you still lose a few.  Good luck man!  BT

[Larry Gibson]

Rick54

Using the Dillon 550B with the Redding dies should pose no problems. Of course the LFC die is in station 4. You'll need to get he conversion kit for 25-20 from Dillon for your 550B. It should be no problem loading the 25-20 on the 550B as I load 22 Hornet on mine. I also load 25-20 but use my single stage press. No particular reason other than I don't load that many 25-20s for my Savage 23B.  I'd suggest adjusting the FL die to partial size size the case only enough for easy chambering.  I find the 75 gr Speer FP 25-20 bullet to be an excellent one. I load it over 11 gr of H4227 for 1850 fps out of my 23B.  I use WSP small pistol primers.

Larry Gibson

[Lone Star]

My Marlin M94 really likes the Speer 75s, they are good killers on small game due to the large flat meplat - no expansion is needed.  I use Redding dies but I do not crimp.  Blasphemy you say?  Not at all, my dies size the necks tight and with the tiny recoil of the .25-20 the bullets do not move in the magazine.  As a test I left the magazine full for 6 months and every cartridge had the same LOA as it did 6 months earlier.   With no crimp to worry about cases last a long time.  I also only part-size the neck.

Note that not all dies will allow the use of no crimp safely.  Rick Jameson wrote about this in the early 90s, his dies gave plenty of neck tension for his M94 and he didn't crimp either.  But other brands or die/case combinations may not work.  Too, cartridges with more recoil need to be crimped.  I would never load .44 Mag cartridges without a crimp no matter how tight the neck grip for instance.

My best loads for the Speer 75FN were with AA-7, AA2015 and H4227.  Velocities were in the 1400-1500 fps range for small game.  I did load some up to over 1800 fps with AA2015 for coyote - but never shot one with the rifle.


.

[Steve P]

If you post your question on the sight www.ihmsa.net you will get a few replies.  I know several guys who load the 25-20 for field pistol silhouette.  All use dillon presses. 

Steve 

[jlchucker]

I used to load 25-20--both jacketed as well as cast bullets.  Had very good luck with both. I crimp every caliber that I load for with Lee Factory Crimp dies, although not aways with a forceful crimp. In this respect I disagree a bit with the previous post by Graybeard. The 25-20 case is a bit fragile around the mouth, so be careful with bullet seating.  You won't need much of a crimp because the recoil isn't much with this round.  Crimping these with a Lee FCD mainly gives your cartridge equalized tension around the case mouth. The Remington 86 gr component bullet is a good one.  For cast, and equally good bullet is the 257420 65 grain Lyman, with gascheck.  Another poster mentioned a Lyman M die.  It's worth getting one if you are going to do much with cast bullets. I handload all of my rifle rounds with a single stage press--have since 1974.  These days, it's a Lee Classic Cast-Iron model, although Rockchuckers are nearly as good.