mil-dot scopes and range finding software.

[slickest]

Hey guys. Once I'm done paying off my new rifle  (700 vsf .308 lh) I'm going to to need a new scope of course. I would like to get a tactical/target scope with a mil-dot reticule. I have looked at the top of the line scopes but i cant see myself paying more for the scope then the rifle.

I dont want to pay over much over $700 for a scope i guess im really looking for something in between the 500-700 range. Im just wondering what outs their for that price range. I would prefer a 3-12x50 or 56mm or a something like a 3.5-14x50 or 56mm with the mil-dot recticle and and the tactical/target turrets. Also have you guys seen the nightforce angle degree indicator and if they are worth the money?

 after i purchase the scope i would like to buy some range finding software. I seen that the stuff nightforce had looked really good but i was wondering what other people thought?

thanks  for the help guys

[DalesCarpentry]

Here you go. http://www.swfa.com/showcategory.aspx?categoryid=231 This is the brand I will be buying next week for my Remington 700 SPS 243. If you read the reviews you will be impressed. Dale

[Catfish]

If your think of using you mil-dot as range finders that is just alittle better than nothing at all. If you really want to know the range you need a    GOOD    Laser range finder. Personally, I like to dial in the elevation and I use the mil-dots for wind drift or lead on running targets. I also buy only Leupold scopes.

[JustaShooter]

Why do you say that?  The military (and lots of civilians) use mil-dot for range estimation to great effect.  Granted, you've got to know what you are doing, and it takes a little math, but with practice you should be able to get pretty good at it.

Just a Shooter

[wareagleguy]

I got my first Mil-dot in a Nikon Monarch with a 42mm obj.  Large turrets and so far it has been great.  With the outstanding Nikon glass and I got for around $450.00 (I think that is right).  I looked into several but was scared of many scopes I just didn't know anything about but I have three other Nikon scopes and love them.  Leupold would be great but I couldn't find anything close for that kind of money.

[Catfish]

The reason I say range estimation is inaccurate is because your target has to be the same size every time and animals vary in size. Even if your target is the same size you will have an error in your focus. With a .308 and a 150 gn. bullet at 2,900 fps your bullet will drop abt. 24 in. between 400 and 500 yrds. If your off 50 yrds. your up or down 12 in. which is a miss on a deer. If your off 25 yrds. your off 6 in. and you missed a coyote. I have seen alot of groundhog that were 1/2 grown or less and at longer ranges look like adults. With a 1/2 grown that you think is an adult your range will be 2 times the actual range.

[JustaShooter]

Well, there's no arguing with that - if the object you are ranging against isn't the size you think it is, you are going to be off.  The focus error I would have to say is pretty small in comparison though, and is even small in comparison to the average person's ability to estimate fractions of a mil. 

Still, with practice and at ranges somewhat under maximum effective range for a particular cartridge, mil-dot range estimation can be very effective, but not as precise as a good laser range finder I'll admit.

Just a Shooter

[DalesCarpentry]

Well, there's no arguing with that - if the object you are ranging against isn't the size you think it is, you are going to be off.  The focus error I would have to say is pretty small in comparison though, and is even small in comparison to the average person's ability to estimate fractions of a mil. 

Still, with practice and at ranges somewhat under maximum effective range for a particular cartridge, mil-dot range estimation can be very effective, but not as precise as a good laser range finder I'll admit.

Just a Shooter

+++++++++++++111111111111111111. Dale

[sscoyote]

I always establish a rangefinding system with the reticles i use. I will admit that reticle-rangefinding has limitations, but it's better than nothing if the laser isn't around. Just couple weeks ago i had the opportunity to range an antelope buck while out coyote hunting. I was using the Burris Ballistic Plex reticle and the buck reticle-ranged @ 247 yds. while the laser said 245. Once the math behind reticle-ranging is understood it's easy to see it's limitations.

I like mil-dots that aren't calibrated for the scope's highest power. That way i can apply them at a smaller subtension as power is increased.

[Catfish]

Maybe I should tell you where i`m coming from with my ideas on long range shooting. I take it a little more serious than most people. I carry a Leupold range finder that doubles as a pair of 7 x bino`s. My rifle of choice for long range shooting is a .22-6mm with an 8 1/2 to 25 Leupold on it. I shoot 80 gn. bullets for their high BC. and carry a drop chart with wind drift figured at 10 mph. That allows me to dial in the correct elevation and rapidly estimate wind drift. It also has lead for a 10 mph target. Unless I have alot of cross wind I expect a kill on a coyote or a groundhog 98% of the time at 600 yrds. I did shoot a group just over 2 in. at 600 yrds. with this gun. This gun is not an off hand gun.

[sscoyote]

U might like this story CF. A hunting partner of mine built up a tight-necked 270 WSM couple years ago on a Nesika Bay round action and some big barrel of some make--can't remember now. he put an 8.5-25X VX-III on it too. I was elected to take it hunting the 1st time, after i was supposed to work up a load for it that shot better than his (i didn't--his already shot pretty good i thought). I zeroed it in on a prairie dog, and used his velocity for a drop chart i just printed and took with me a couple days later for some long-range testing on rocks,etc. Mom was with me this day (she likes to spot and shoot some--even at 70y.o.), as it was too nice of a day for winter. After we got to the ranch, we walked out to a low ridge that overlooks a huge shallow prairie basin. I'd brought my howler with me just in case, and before we got started shooting i let out a howl. A little scanning with my binocs, and turns out we'd raised a mange coyote out of it's bed. He was quite a ways away but was skirting our position to try and get downwind when he ran into a herd of bedded antelope. They gave chase to him, and he hightailed it out of there. They gave up the chase, and the coyote started to slow down. I was ranging the dog, trying to get mom onto him, and trying to run clicks all at the same time. He finally stopped walking and turned to look our way standing on a little rise. I got 775 off the Leica, and ran the addtl. turret clicks in--no wind. Got set up ASAP behind the big rig, and touched it off. The gun recoiled just a little (this is a BIG rig, and probably weighs 15-18 lbs. or so), and came back down onto the legs of the Harris BR pod, and i watched the dog fall over DRT. There is no better thrill in the shooting sports IMO than spotting your own successful long shot. Turns out the 140 BT hit him in the chest and appeared to exit a little out his left rear buttocks. He was manged bad and couldn't tell much. I'll never forget that shot.

I'm gonna be getting Holland's ART reticle installed in my 8.5-25X Mk. 4 soon that's on my 6.5 WSM XP-100 HG for sniping those LR dogs.