Author Topic: Flea market toys  (Read 1732 times)

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Offline Terry C.

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Flea market toys
« on: April 12, 2008, 04:40:38 PM »
About twice a year there is a large flea market in an old tobacco warehouse in the next town over.

We rode the bike this morning. When we got there the deal was "If it won't fit on the rack or in the saddlebags, we can't buy it."

So we were mostly looking for small stuff. And small stuff was what I found.

First up is a brass firecracker cannon, no markings. Possibly an antique, certainly being hawked as one. The seller wouldn't budge on this one, I paid the $10 asking price.

The breech screws off to load the firecracker. This little gun was way too clean inside, it had apparently never been fired.

I had some Black Cats stashed away, so that was quickly remedied.






Up next is a cap cannon. This cannon fires the little plastic cup-type caps. It's not new, but not the antique that the seller made it out to be. It's marked 'Made In Italy' on the underside of the carriage. I only paid $5 for this one.

The caps did not come with the cannon, the seller had no clue as to the function of the firing mechanism. I purchased them separately, and I've fired about a dozen of the caps to verify functioning.






The last item is not really a toy at all, but it fits in well with the other items.

It's a miniature cannon decanter set, complete with an (empty) airline-sized Cognac bottle. I paid $2 for this item.

I'm no authority on Cognac. The brand is Courvoisier, made in France. Supposedly "The Brandy of Napoleon."

The plastic cannon dispenser is a replica of a full-sized wooden version. It has an insert that can be removed to allow the bottle to tip on its 'trunnions' like a cannon barrel, I've left it in place for now.








Total expenditure (not including caps and firecrackers) - $17.

Offline Will Bison

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 04:51:55 PM »
Well ain't them some cool little trinkets.

Offline lance

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 05:07:26 PM »
Terry, those are neat!!! got me in the mood to hunt some flea markets!
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 05:40:02 PM »
Don't want to be a wet blanket but keep a good ways away from the "firecracker cannon" since they can rupture after so many shots.  Even little black cats have quite a high burning velocity and out a shock wave that can do damage.  I'd want at least some eye protection if I were going to put firecrackers in it and light it.  I don't think the thing would kill you unless a chunk happened to clip an artery in your neck, but I could definitely see someone losing an eye from a jagged piece of brass.  I blew one of those up myself with 1.5 inch black cat, and it ruptured along the bottom and luckily didn't throw fragments around

Offline Cannon caster

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 03:39:05 AM »
How much flash powder does a black cat firecracker contain?
500 g of black powder.

Offline Fluxion

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 11:52:24 AM »
How much flash powder does a black cat firecracker contain?


50 mg (0.77 grains)   ;D 

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 02:51:44 PM »
.. keep a good ways away from the "firecracker cannon" since they can rupture after so many shots.

I gave the little cannon a wide berth when I fired it. Adding extra fuse and lighting it with the linstock.

I fired it five times, then washed it out and put it on display. It probably won't see a lot of use, but I will want to fire it occasionally if it can be done safely.


After reading your post, I had the idea of making a steel inner liner that would surround the firecracker. There is enough room for a thin sleeve just larger than the Black Cat. This would help protect the hollow brass breech from the explosive force of the firecracker.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 06:59:13 AM »
what size is an black cat exactly ??
how long is the fuse ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 08:52:43 AM »
A Black Cat is pretty much the standard when it comes to firecrackers.

They are about 1½" long by ¼" in diameter. They usually have about 1" of fuse, but this is a thin fast-burning paper fuse.

The hole in the breech cap on this cannon is just large enough that I can push a piece of 1/16" visco fuse in beside the firecracker fuse. A couple of inches of the slower-burning visco gives me a few extra seconds to retreat before the paper fuse ignites.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 03:20:40 PM »
I guess if we can talk about non-blackpowder firecrackers, we could talk about firing cannons with hydrocarbon gas.  If you have a gas welding rig handy you might set it up with propane and oxygen (I use that for cutting all the time) and put s little of the mix into the muzzle. Then you ignite via the hole in the breech and you should get a loud pop.  Oxy acetelene is more powerful and not to be messed with in my opinion in this kind of device.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 03:37:16 PM »
thats a bit dangerous
if you got the wrong proportions you will have an extremely explosive mix .

just as an curiosity I can tell you that if you take an normal size garbage bag and fill that with an mix of oxygen and acetylen .

attach an very long dynamite fuse and put it in an car and close all doors and windows .

after that explosion there is no windows or doors left at the car , it might even rip the roof apart , the rest of the body looks like an football .

I know , I have tested .

I DONT RECOMMEND TO USE IT IN CANNONS .
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline accuratemike

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 03:49:26 PM »
Calcium carbide + water = acetylene. "Big Bang" cannon are acetylene fueled. Mike

Offline Double D

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 03:54:03 PM »
We grandfathered in firecracker cannons and toy cannons a long time ago as in the spirit of the forum. Propane or gas cannons were put out off board topic a long time ago.  Discussions about propane or gas fired cannons should be taken to the Exotic Weapons forum.  

The exception is Pre 1899 gas propelled guns and carbide cannons allowed.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 03:58:47 PM »
I guess if we can talk about non-blackpowder firecrackers, we could talk about firing cannons with hydrocarbon gas.  If you have a gas welding rig handy you might set it up with propane and oxygen (I use that for cutting all the time) and put s little of the mix into the muzzle. Then you ignite via the hole in the breech and you should get a loud pop.  Oxy acetelene is more powerful and not to be messed with in my opinion in this kind of device.

Let's keep to traditional propellants.  I.e.: blackpowder and the normal stuff in firecrackers.

I COULD go on about acetylene and oxygen - AND the SIX FOOT ball of flame that took the hair off my arm up to my elbow.  But I won't.  I was in H.S. then; and I think I've learned a bit since then and was VERY LUCKY to tell about it.

WE WILL keep to safe propellants such as BLACKPOWDER.



Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline dan610324

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 04:02:57 PM »
I couldnt agree more to that
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 01:08:40 AM »
The carbide cannon has been around seemingly forever, so I thought there might be a chance that it predated the 1899 cutoff.

No such luck. from what I can find the original patent dated on the toy gas gun is 1907. "BIG-BANG" cannons were first manufactured in 1912.

In their defense, there has AFAIK never been any legal issues with carbide-firing toy cannons.

FWIW, calcium carbide gives off acetylene gas, but the gas in the toy guns is not mixed with oxygen but with atmospheric air.

Acetylene/air mix is nowhere near as volatile as acetylene/oxygen. It's the oxygen that makes playing around with acetylene so dangerous. Trust me, I know first-hand.

And that's all I got to say about that...

Offline Double D

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 02:16:37 AM »
Carbide cannons are allowed on the board.


Offline Terry C.

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2008, 07:46:27 AM »
We grandfathered in firecracker cannons and toy cannons a long time ago as in the spirit of the forum. Propane or gas cannons were put out off board topic a long time ago.  Discussions about propane or gas fired cannons should be taken to the Exotic Weapons forum. 

The exception is Pre 1899 gas propelled guns and carbide cannons allowed.

Carbide cannons are allowed on the board.

Thanks for that clarification. From your previous post, I wasn't sure where the carbide cannon fit in. I think I was reading the last line wrong, I made the assumption that you meant 'pre-1899 carbide cannons' (of which there aren't any).


Personally, I think the "BIG-BANG" cannons are cool and I'm glad they're allowed here. And I wouldn't mind having one myself.

Hmm... Birthday coming soon, the big Five-Oh. Maybe I should start dropping hints? (A man is never too old for toys!)

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2008, 11:21:43 AM »
Back to the subject of my toys...

Here is a little smoke & fire from the firecracker cannon!

In the first frame, you can see my preferred method of ignition. The hole in the breech cap is big enough to force in a piece of 1/16" visco beside the exiting paper fuse. I clip off the excess paper fuse after the visco is inserted. This gives me a much longer burn time, so I can retreat at my leisure.



Even the little Black Cat can give fire, and make the little cannon jump (notice the motion blur of the wheels)!



Click here for small video (478 KB)
Click here for larger video (1.04 MB)

;D

Offline Cannon caster

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Re: Flea market toys
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 12:10:19 PM »
50 mg (0.77 grains)   ;D 

Only 50 mg?!?! :o
500 g of black powder.