colt saa help

[mtbugle]

I am looking at purchasing an older colt saa.  I believe the ser# puts it as 2nd gen.  35xxxsa.  My question is about the wear on the cylinder.  The locking lug to hold cylinder in alignment seems to be allow to turn cylinder from locked position on a couple of the firing positions when hammer in the fired position.  locks up tight when cocked, but i am wondering if a problem if worn enough to rotate some when in fired position.  Also how expensive of fix, and could a mechanically enclined person be able to achieve this.  The cylinder doesn't seem much worn on the lock up spots, but the lug on bottom of frame does look very shinny like worn some.  other than the cylinder lock up the pistol looks in good shape with normal wear of bluing around sharp edge areas.  90-95% bluing still there.  Idea of approx value also appreciated.  Think I may be able to get for around $100.  Is it worth it or should I pass?

[LRB]

If I understand your problem, it sounds like the cylinder bolt is worn out, or the spring is weak, and possibly the hand spring also. The cylinder bolt is spring tempered and is forked. One tine rides over the hammer cam, and has to be fitted to adjust timing. If the spring is the problem, you just replace it. These can be found made from music wire these days, which is much better than the original spring. The hand spring is very thin and wears where it rides up, and down in it's frame channel. Many frame channels are quite rough, and have a case hardened contact surface. I worked on a third model once that had less than a box of ammo shot through it, and the hand spring was already worn in half. The channels need to be filed smooth with a diamond file, and polished to stop the wear on the spring. Since you say the cylinder locks tight in full battery, I would look at the trigger-bolt spring first, then the bolt, and hand. Also check the ratchet on the cylinder for excessive wear. None of these parts are terribly expensive, but if the cylinder ratchet is excessively worn, you may have to find another cylinder.

[44 Man]

I would pay much more than that and still jump at it!  The worst that might be needed would be to replace the cylinder bolt (the piece on the bottom that pops up to lock the cylinder)  It may be worn on the edges or someone may have tried to do a 'home' action job and just rounded the edges too much.  The other possibility is as simple as a broken or weak bolt/trigger spring also.  (which is more likely the problem)  Either repair is not a big deal.  The spring is easy and I guess I would replace that anyway, probably with the new style 'wire' spring instead of the old flat style.  A replacement bolt might just drop in and work fine, many do.  And while I would be confident in replacing the bolt if it were necessary, that's probably a job best left to a good single action smith if any timing were necessary.  You could try it and see how it worked and take it to one if it was necessary.  You would know as soon as you worked the action a couple of times.  Good luck with that gun.  I would not hesitate to pay in the neighborhood of $500 or more.  Probably a $10 spring, maybe a $50 bolt and worse case would be an action job.  But I would bet if you took the grip frame off, you will find a weak or broken spring where it pushes up the cylinder locking bolt.  44 Man.

[warrior1]

how does the rest of the colt appear? if you pass on the deal,please let me know. dan

[mtbugle]

OK  I took the plunge and bought it.  Thanks very much for the insightful comments here.  The bolt does look like possibly smoothed and notice that the trigger is quite light pull to fire.  would that also be an indicator of the week spring mentioned?  Also is there any good dis-assembly diagrams on-line 'with pictures' or other sources that would be helpful prior to me starting to disassemble?   What are good sources for parts?  Thanks again for all the help.  Don

[44 Man]

Congrautulations on that Colt!  Gun Parts Corp (on line) has an excellent diagram of the gun and parts.  Single actions are easy to disassemble, and also to re-assemble.  To check the spring, remove the cylinder (empty gun on half cock, push pin in front of cylinder sideways, pull cylinder pin out, open loading gate and cylinder should roll out into your hand).  When the hammer is down, there should be enough spring pressure that the bolt should be difficult to push down.  To get to the spring you now take out the screws beside the hammer and on the bottom of the grip frame. (I'm assuming you have taken the grips off)  That will let the back strap come off.  Then you can lower the hammer and remove the screw holding the hammer spring to the grip frame and take that off.  (while I was buying a spring for the trigger/bolt, I would also buy a new Wolfe hammer spring.  It will smooth things up for you also)  Then remove the three screws in the trigger guard and that will come off also.  You can now look into the bottom and see the flat spring with two arms.  That's your bolt/trigger spring and it comes off with one screw.  Nothing else has to be disassembled, from that point if it is the spring.  At that point you can also look at the bottom of the bolt and see if one arm has broken off but that is unlikely.  If the bolt were broken, you could not get the gun to cock or the cylinder to turn as it would not unlock without being disassembled, so I am confident it is just your bolt/trigger spring that is your problem.  I would the Wolfe Hammer spring and wire type bolt/trigger spring both from Midway.  They should last a lifetime.  Enjoy that gun and just pop back on if you have any problems.  Glad to help.  44 Man

[mtbugle]

Having looked closer without taking apart i am sure that someone filed down the bolt.  It pushes down at least twice as hard as my Virginian dragoon, so i feel spring is plenty strong.  My question here is would it be a very bad thing to put the .01 or .02 of an inch back on by putting a dab of JB weld on the top of the bolt and cocking to form shape in ratchet of cylinder and then file to dimensions again.  This would seem a lot easier than learning all the filing points of timing a new bolt.  I know many would say JB weld has no business on any gun and other might say what ever shim to size is good enough.  Yes I know that a great abundance of release agent would be a good plan. I would like recommendations from the great knowledgeable minds here. Thanks Don.  P.s. If this needs to be on gunsmiths forum i apologize.

[LRB]

  Even JB would not last long.  You can carefully file, or stone down the surface of the  stop tab forward of the bolt, this will allow the bolt to come up higher in the slot. Just don't overdo it. You do not want it to go so high as to touch the cylinder when it is in free play condition. If you get it at level with the frame, it should be about right. If the bolt has been tinkered with, you may want to check it's seating when it goes into the cylinder slot. Do this with a dab of lipstick, or something that will leave color where it makes contact. In a perfect world, it would leave a pretty full mark in the bottom of the cresent slot. You will have to do this by hand with the spring removed, or the color will wipe off in the cylinder race. If you do not get a pretty full mark, you may need to reshape some part of the bolt until you are confident that it makes a positive lock up.

[44 Man]

To calm some of your fears, a new bolt will usually work without a lot of fitting.  To get the perfect timing and smoothness you might like, yes some fitting may be necessary.  But, they usually will function by just being installed.  If you would like, buy one of the gunsmith videos about the SAA, that will help also.  Enjoy!  It sounds like an easily correctable problem with your Colt.  44 Man

[mtbugle]

Thankyou very much gents.  I guess it is time to tear it down and look at filing the stop option.  Thanks Don.

[44 Man]

You can see where the bolt stops against the frame.  If you file material off there, you can raise the tab that locks in the cylinder.  This may work well.  But as you 'raise' that end, you also lower the other end.  If you lower the part that hooks on the hammer (it unlocks it as the hammer is cocked) too much the cylinder will not unlock to cock it for the next shot.  In that case, you will have to replace the bolt anyway.  But it is worth a try.  I have done this procedure a couple of times to fit a different brand bolt to a gun when I didn't want to wait for the correct part.  Good luck with it.  And the offer is still there if you get tired of messing with it and want to pass it on to a good loving home and get your money back.  44 Man

[mtbugle]

LIFE IS GOOD.  I got the dermal tool out and some 600 grit sand paper and worked the bolt ratchet mating surface and stop and now it locks up great with unobservable wiggle. I may take apart and polish a little just to make surfaces real smooth.  It is tighter than my 44 now.  All springs looked great with good tension so I didn't replace any for now.  I will probably have to look at touching up the 44 now that i know how easy it is.  Thanks for all the great advise and now i need to get to the range to see how she shoots.  Thanks Don.

[44 Man]

Great news!  I'm glad it worked well for you!  Now we can address Colt's other occasional problem.  Your Colt may be one of those that will shoot to the left a little.  Mine both shot about 4" or 5" left at 30 yds for me.  If yours does, look at the front sight carefully and see it it leans a little to the right (when holding the gun by the grip and pointed away from you.)  If it does, that's your culprut.  I turned the barrel (left) on the blued one until the front was straight and it then shot center.  The other one was a nickeled 44 spl and no one would clamp on the barrel because of being afraid they might mark up the shiney nickel plating.  So..... I just whacked the front sight against the shooting bench and bent it slightly to the left and brought the bullets right under the sights!  It wasn't even noticable unless you had a very deserning eye, but it worked great.  In fact it worked well enough that I'm more likely to do that next time than turning the barrel.  Good luck and good shooting!  44 Man