Author Topic: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party  (Read 1263 times)

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Offline bilmac

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So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« on: June 15, 2008, 05:43:11 AM »
Instead of just snipeing at the other parties, maybe the libertarians can tell us something great about their own. I think they're loonybins about drug laws, and downright dangerous if they think we can just isolate ourselves from the rest of the world. Didn't wouk for the Chinese, didn't work prior to WW 2. Now the world has nukes and fanatics who think that dying so thet the US will be subdued is the thing to do. If you do nothing but defense, eventually the other side will land some punches, nuclear punches.

That said, I may vote libertarian this year. I live in Wyoming and it is absolutely guaranteed that Wyo. will go Republican this year. That gives me the opportunity to express my extreme displeasure with the  Republican party. The party needs to stop this tradition of letting a few country club republicans in eastern states determine who our nominee will be.

Offline Dee

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 06:33:55 AM »
bilmac, not being facetious, but a better question would be, what is so great about the Democratic and the Republican parties that keep most folks voting for the lessor of two evils, and always getting lessor, and lessor in quality, until reaching a point such as we have arrived at now.
The lessor of two evils voting method is what has taken us to where we are now. It is obvious that it is a failed method. I have said that I would change my mind, and NOT vote for a third party but, instead Republican which smells to high heaven, but am not sure I will be able to stick to that.
Mr. McCain, in my opinion is just as capable as Mr. Obama, as to further destroying the country. Perhaps what we REALLY NEED is a very BAD President to wake everyone up to the fact of voting for the lessor of two evils, and it's ramifications.
My agreement to vote McCain is affecting my conscience to no end, and my common sense tells me, that at some point and time we must go ahead and reap what we have sown, regardless of how bad it hurts. Once reaped, perhaps we can re-sew something more honest and worth-while, than what the lessor of two evils has produced over the years.
The old saying of; laying down with dogs and getting up with fleas has proven to be politically true, so my thought is that although my candidate will not win, I will however, be free of fleas.
The voting method of the lessor of, has had a tendency to CONDITION everyone to accept less, and it is a road to destruction at an acceptable pace in my opinion. BTJMO
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 07:38:50 AM »
A non-answer clouded over with  negative info about the other two parties.  I agree with Dee tho that we are in a lesser of the two evils situation however. Contary to what the Dems would have you believe, the average Repub works for a living, etc, etc.  No silver spoons.
IMO, and I feel very strongly about this, if Hussein is elected, we may not get another chance to vote. 
A single scenerio could well be, if Hussein starts cutting too many deals with those aggressor "nations", China, to whom we are grossly in debt, may decide to protect their investment and step in or cut us off at the pocket book.  They threatened it once and Japan brokered a deal to let us keep buying. 

Offline Dee

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 08:45:12 AM »
Let me clarify my answer, beemanbeme, as your assumption that I did not answer the question is correct. I did fail to do so.
I was swayed for a time on another similar thread of the "Fear of an Obama" regime and what it would do to this country, and stated that I would likely vote McCain.
My conscience however, I don't believe will allow me to go thru with that vote. SO! The Libertarian candidate wants what is good for this country according to the CONSTITUION and the BILL OF RIGHTS. The Republican and Democrat want what's good for the country according to what each PARTY thinks is good for the country. The CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS have nothing to do with their plan.
NEITHER candidate has ANY INTEREST at securing our borders, and both have said so, and both have VOTED SO. Neither seem interested in what the people want, only THEIR PERSONAL VISION.
If we do not have the gumption to defend our liberty, then we WILL fall to another country. Voting for a sold out SOB, whether it be McCain OR Obama, will not ensure our continued freedom, but will simply pare more of it off the tree of liberty.
Perhaps we are about to receive a wake-up call when the majority votes "once again" for the lessor of two evils.
I would compare McCain to a Coral snake, and Obama to a Rattler. Why you ask? Anyone whom knows snakes, knows that a Coral has to CHEW to inject it's poison, as it has no fangs. The Rattler having fangs, can quickly INJECT it's poison. Slow or fast, the results ARE the same. Give the Coral time, and he WILL kill you. The lessor of two evils has been chewing since Reagan left, and the results are obvious. I have took a stick to my Coral snake, and stay away from the Rattler.
You may vote accordingly. The Coral, the Rattler, or the best and most honest man. Two are the same, and one is different. It's all in how you look at it.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BBF

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2008, 10:46:48 AM »
This huge trade deficit you all are talking about with China. Remember, this is paper money. The Fed Reserve puts it out, there is no real value in it as in silver or gold.  The Chinese don't want to play ball, OK, change the currency, print new bills, the old ones are just a piece of paper not worth using to wipe your butt.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2008, 01:52:34 PM »
In answer to the original question the libertarians basic belief is to have a nation governed by the constitution. stripping the feds of all powers not granted it by that document. another unique concept is that anything that does not harm another should be legal our "war on drugs" is a waste of tine and money you cannot legislate morality it was tried with Prohibition and had the same result as it has now overcrowded prisons and rampart crime, legalization and taxing drugs actually works just look at the netherlands. prostitution should be legal it works in Nevada. no income taxes that's what i call a tax cut for the working masses. neither party is concerned with whats good for the country only what is good for the party and their backers, How many people do you know that will give you a couple of million dollars to buy a job. How can anyone spend millions to get a job that pays 10% of that and leave office with millions? The American voters are dumber than a box of rocks to keep this system in place. I have always voted independent and never have backed a winner but I have always voted for the best man i could find to vote for. This country is headed for rough times but I'm old enough to know that I won't see a lot of them but i feel my grandkids are being ripped off of their freedom. The system we have has our great great grand children in debt, there is something wrong here. Jefferson said that a revolution was good for a country ever now and then, and i think he was right.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline bilmac

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2008, 03:56:26 PM »
Well something good could come if Obama were pres. Pull out of the muslems back yards and let them get their act togather and they probably will manage to get a nuke togather. I believe that they may be stupid enough to sneak it into D.C. and vaporize our government. That would be the best thing that could happen to the US. Mccain will be far less likely to let that happen.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2008, 04:44:14 PM »
I agree with a lot of what has been written.  However I don't think America is gonna be changed by one vote. It isn't gonna be changed in a national election. And it certainly ain't gonna be changed overnight.  By the time a candidate reaches national level, he owes so many favors, has so many hooks in him --even your "independents" and such-- that he is like a string puppet.  And he is so mired in the good-ole-boy system of scratch my back and I'll scratch your's system of pork exchange that he has to go along in order to get anything done.  As we have seen, when bills are sent to the President for much needed reforms there is so much pork hanging on them that it's pitiful. 
Reform is gonna have to start at a local level.  Decent, honest folks are gonna have to be elected to local positions like school superintendent, city council and such.  And supported.  And as these decent folks move up, a close eye will have to be kept on them. 
Our problems now are our fault.  We have depended on the fox to watch the hen house too long.  And a Libertarian candidate wouldn't be any different if left unsupervised long enough. 

Offline Fazak

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 05:53:21 PM »
The Libertarian party wants the people to be the government,..instead of slaves of the government.

Offline Sitting Duck

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2008, 07:44:09 PM »
Personally, I don't think our current situation can be fixed regardless if a Libertarian, Republican, or Democrat is elected President.  Congress is what's broke and a new face in the Oval Office isn't going to change that. 

There are too many people on the public dole (over 50% are receiving some type of government aid) and they sure as heck aren't going to vote to limit the freebies that Congress has offered up and that they have become accustomed to.  This 50% number will increase as the middle class moves in the direction of the lower class due to the loss of our manufacturing base.  This trend is already happening.

Quite honestly, I see multiple States seceding from the Union within twenty-five years.  The problems we face can be fixed but not on a national level.  The corruption, greed, and stupidity is too great.  On a State by State level, once we disassociate ourselves from the Union, the issues facing us today can be addressed and rectified.

This is my take on our current and future state of affairs.  A Libertarian as President would be great but without a Libertarian Congress all is for naught. 

Hey!  Maybe the South will rise again!

Offline bilmac

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 05:42:46 AM »
Dee
You are torn between pragmatic and just holding your nose and voting Republican, because you know the harm Obama could do, and voting Libertarian and to hell with the consequenses. How about this, I too think that the Republicans need a wake up call and am thinking Libertarian, but since I live in Wyo. my protest vote will do no harm. You may live in a state where votes will count. How about if I promise to vote Libertarian, I've always admired ol Bob Barr anyhow, you promise to vote Republican.

I would expand the offer, You guys who are torn like Dee, and live in states where your vote may be important, tell me. I know of several folks offhand who don't want to vote for Mccain, but are absolutely scared to death of Obama. Maybe we could work out a way to exchange votes. Maybe a cluster of Libertarian votes would be more likely to get attention more than a scattering here and there. Maybe if the party hacks see some organization going on it may start them thinking. 

Offline magooch

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 06:06:54 AM »
I absolutely disagree that a bunch of fat-cats are responsible for choosing the Republican candidate.  There were some very good people running for President on the Republican side, but for some inexplicable reason, the voters chose McCain.  McCain would have made a reasonable Dumbycrat candidate and then maybe we would have a Republican candidate we could be proud of.

Maybe the Dumbycrats have figured out a way that they can not lose.  They have sleepers like McCain and that idiot from Nebraska planted in the Republican Party and the Republicrat voters go for em every time.

No, I blame the people and the media that seems to have more influence than what good, or common sense can overcome.  People have just forgotten how to think for themselves.
Swingem

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 06:36:31 AM »
Sitting Duck makes TOO much sense. It's kinda scary.  I have a feeling that if Hussein doesn't win the election (let us pray) the democrat party will splinter.  Maybe the Lib party can emerge.  It seems it would take a lot of effort though. 


Offline jager

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 05:43:36 PM »
I too am a disenchanted Conservative; however, born in the 40's as many of you, I don't recall any other conservative president that came close to President Reagan. FDR got us rolling into his third term toward "socialism" that most "libs" today think got us out of the "Great Depression". While I might agree he was a great speaker (could be a great political "deceiver" as well), he realized who most of our enemies were, even though he was rather "short sighted" when it came to Stalin. Truman, who was never included in FDR's "inner circle" had tremendous fortitude to end the war as a victor to save our "boys" regardless of the media consequences. His performance in MHO was not "stellar" in Korea, but he sure as heck wasn't going to let the "communists" take over without a fight even if we didn't have the active duty forces, at the time, to prevent it. And, he (as a former Army Capt.) proved that a 5 Star General had a "Commander-in-Chief". "Ike" Eisenhower might have followed with an "R" next to his name as to "party affiliation", but he could not stand to be called a "conservative" by even his closest friends. JFK, who has gained "monumental" status as a "liberal" by the press was more conservative than the Republican he ran against and would not have a tolerated even some of the "libs" in the Republican party of today. LBJ, who gave us the "Great Society" put the "African Americans" (that allowed themselves to be "duped") back into slavery through his "socialistic" programs and rewards without performance required. He "orchestrated" the Vietnam War from his office with a "no win" strategy that cost us more lives per year than this war has cost in 5. Even at that, most would have stayed in that war to the end if there was a goal of defeating North Vietnam rather than get them to the "peace table". Nixon was a "Centrist delight" who brought us the EPA and installed other government programs befitting Bill Clinton. However, he trusted the American people less than they trusted him and tried to make sure he would win the next election that cost him the White House. Gearld Ford beat out Ronald Reagan for the nomination and was more liberal than even George Bush (Sr.). In a post Nixon era where the party was made a "pariah" by the ""Anti-Vietnam"", anti-Nixon, anti-Republican media through association, Ford was a Michagan ex-football player who was characterized by falling over a fold in the carpet. His adversary in the next election from Plains, GA was the "holier-than-thou" preacher (his sister was) who would "give us change we could believe in". And, he did give us change! Our military was reduced to the lowest levels we'd had since after WWII; he used wheat and commodities to punish those countries who did not adhere to his attestations ideas of "good human relations"; he installed "windfall profit" taxes and we had "gas lines" at our service stations; we made a lot of talk to nations like Russia, Iran, and China who knew we were a "paper tiger". (I have a rifle caliber to remind me of how many days we had hostages in captivity in Iran - will they dare again?) He may not have been in office but 4 years, but we are still seeing the effects of his work as we witness him laying a wreath at the grave of Araphat, hugging Hugo Chavez, visiting Syria, and "propping up" the "Butcher of Cuba".)  Carter alone should be a "reminder" that "sitting out" elections for a "smooth talking liberal" is not a good idea! Yeah, we got Reagan and I do agree he was probably one of the greatest Presidents we ever had (the media hated him) and a true conservative who loved this country and gave us pride in ourselves; however, he had to make compromises (both "houses" were Democrat). His decisions to pull out of Lebanon was not one of the best, but he never appeared (at least to most people that supported him) that he ever did anything for pure political gain. He did take on George H. Bush as his VP, who was no conservative by any "stretch of the imagination", but a N.E. Rockefeller "blueblood" who claimed Texas as his "non taxable" home of residence. He decided that "international politics" was more important than "national" politics and a "smooth talking" man from Arkansas won the "electoral college" (but not fifty per cent of the popular vote), because of a "small statured dynamo" called Perot, who was a "bonified Texan". Clinton tried to install "liberal" policies, which got him a Republican congress in '94. After winning the election, losing the "House" (first time in 40 years), he passed a bills the house gave him that he couldn't veto and the press made sure he got credit for all the ones the public wanted. If he had to run a second term without being an incumbent, I don't think he would have won (the same might be said for George W. if we had had someone else to choose). Because of the "stain-on-the-dress", fans of Bill will never forgive "social conservatives" and one example is how much they hate "George W.". Clinton made the "terror issue" a "law enforcement" problem while invading Bosnia for "Human Rights" violations (Saddem was not included with the bad "Serbian"). We made a "stab" at Rwanda, which ended with a quick pull out; while we witnessed "hint" after hint of "Muslims" who were working up to the ultimate "hit" (World Trade no. 1, Kenya embassy, USS Cole, firing on U.S. aircraft by Iraq in the "No Fly" zone, etc.) We got George W. Bush, which should have been a "landslide" victory against one of the most "liberal" people in D.C. who was a "sitting" Vice President who could not even carry his own state. Gore already had his "wacko" book out on "global warning" and the focus of the election ended up in Florida on "hanging chads". George W. never was a "fiscal conservative", but a so called "compassionate conservative" which has translated to a Rockefeller Republican. If the Democrat party was not so intent on listening to the "far left loonies" in their party and go back to the "Blue Dog" conservatives that match the majority of this country, George Bush would have stayed in Texas. Instead, he won (yes, he did win even by multiple recounts!) by a "prayer". I shudder to think how 9/11 would have been handled by "Owlgore" (many Democrates expressed the same at the time). So, I guess I have to ask the question whether you agree with any or all of my "synoptic" comments of our past presidents......other than President Reagan, when have we had a conservative president? And, even if you agree with Bob Barr, who I admire, and some of the Libertarian policies, are you really ready to let out country take a chance with a "socialist" like Obama (discounting the remarks of his "racist mentor" and pastor, Muslim kin in Kenya, #1 liberal voting record in the Senate against every precept you believe in) that he will teach the Republicans a lesson in who should be in charge of their party and we all are willing to serve a master who has a two houses of Congress which will be run by liberals to change the face of our nation in a way that Carter only dreamed of. If you remember, we now have our present congress because we Republicans wanted to teach "the party" a "lesson" (I can't say the results has been received favorable except by the very "liberal" who are far worse than any Ford, Nixon, or Bush). Saying that, "well you can't blame the election on me because I didn't vote" or "I voted for a candidate even though I knew he would have no chance of winning" will ring a bit "hollow" when those issues you "hold dear" have to be overturned by a bunch of "Black Robes" (like we'll ever revisit Roe V Wade again). My conscience would bother me far worse if I thought I would "enable" someone who detests the soldier, private entrepreneurship, 2nd amendment (individual) rights, rights of the "unborn", families where Fathers are necessary, rights of the individual, etc. We've had worse crisis than this and have survived. Thanks for letting me "vent".

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2008, 02:55:39 AM »
With so many splinter groups demanding their "rights" can America withstand another social experiment like the 60's? 

Offline ironglow

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 05:14:52 PM »
  Jager;
  Did you write that  that as an original ? If so..Sir, you are gifted ! Your picture of our history of the last 65 years + - is just about themost accurate and perceptive
  I have read anywhere, and by anyone !
   You have given a complete picture of the political highlights in this one pierce..  This is how text books should be written; accurate, impartial and complete..

    My view of Republican vs Libertarian:

          Neither likes big govt (with notable recent exceptions)
          Libertarians are strong on Constitution domestically, Republicans nearly as much.
          Libertarians, isolationists  Republicans, strongest foreign policy.
          Libertarians are basically "secular Republicans".. Libertarians AWOL in the "culture war".
          Republicans will support military..Libertarians will also..in a very limited role.
          Republicans try to fight drug problems..Libertarians AWOL again.
         Libertarians frugal..Republicans not so much, although better than Dems.
         At the present, Republicans CAN win important offices and possibly the two houses, Libertarians..not a chance.

       Just for starters (IMO)...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 10:43:12 AM »
A great opportunity was missed for possibly the last true "Statesman" to be elected President, when everyone became so entranced on appearance rather than content of what Paul  and the others were saying.
I am not quite old enough to remember if Jefferson was a gifted public speaker, but like Jefferson, Paul stuck to the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. His voting record is impecable.Today's voters are too lazy to check out such records which are easily attainable, and simply cop out by saying; I don't know too much about him, and dismiss him.
This lessor of two evils voting method, has lead us down the primrose path of mediocrity, and now to a total sham, but still some stick to it and criticize the voters that have tired of the deception. We reach once more for "just a little more time" to fix things, when it has become "blatantly obvious" that it is not going to fix itself, and your method is not working, never has, nor will it ever work.
I had one foot back in the box, but have thought it out and researched it, and see no end to the deception, as long as you guys are willing to be deceived, and pacified with less and less each election, so it will continue.
Perhaps it is time to hit the proverbial wall, and clean up the resulting mess, by starting over.
The French would not fight, but instead opted to DEBATE amoung themselves (as you do), until the mother's protested for more bread from the government for their hungry babies. Until the mothers stepped up, the men would not. Enter the French Revolution. We are not hungry now. Perhaps when we are, we will do as the French did back then, when their women showed more courage than they.
A scoundrel is a scoundrel, and in this election both the Republican AND the Democrat qualify. Scoundrels should be hung, not elected to office.
If voting for McCain makes you feel better, then by all means do so. If it makes you feel superior in your "political savvy" to tell me I am wasting my vote, when I vote PRO CONSTITUTION, and PRO BILL OF RIGHTS, "while you vote" for a lying, deceiving ELITIST LIBERAL, then as I said, by all means please do so. Then us PRO CONSTITUTIONALISTS, and PRO BILL OF RIGHTS advocates will know whom to blame REGARDLESS of which one wins.
 I will no longer drink the cool aid. SO! As Tom Horn said, (i.e. Steve McQueen); Consider that my last word on the matter.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Sitting Duck

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 12:49:58 PM »
Well put, Dee. 

Offline billy_56081

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2008, 01:57:01 PM »
I'm thinking one reason to not support the Libertarians is by the people I see giving them support. The nut don't fall far from the tree.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2008, 02:22:59 PM »
I am a Libertarian. As a Libertarian I can not join a party of any kind. The Libertarian Party's very existence defies the precept of Libertarianism. I will not vote in any election of any kind. I want to be left alone. My military retirement check is taxed, can't be helped. You can bet anything else I make is not!  Crazy? Maybe. The first Black man might get elected President? Death wish. There are nuts out there who would for the sheer novelty of it! Sad country, sad state of affairs. I paid my debt in countries we are not allowed to admit we were ever in and I've paid enough, period.
You can't beat a Cerberus!

Offline Sitting Duck

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2008, 03:12:03 PM »
I'm thinking one reason to not support the Libertarians is by the people I see giving them support. The nut don't fall far from the tree.

That crunching sound you're hearing underfoot, isn't just Libertarians. 

 

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 03:58:09 PM »
TM7, you get the gist completely. A smart fellow it is , you are!
You can't beat a Cerberus!

Offline deltecs

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 04:10:09 PM »

... I remember the Founders never thought there should be political parties or foreign entanglements....then somebodies figured out it would be a good way to herd people between two opposing bickering parties. The rest is history.

..TM7

Here, I must disagree with you.  Even before, during and after, the signing of the Constitution the founders were burdened with political parties, IE Federalists, Whigs, and Jeffersonians.  You must re read your American history more clearly.  Two of our founding fathers were of opposite parties and disagreed on almost every issue before that august body.  John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.  In those days the second highest elected candidate was Vice President.   They definitely did consider foreign entanglements, since Congress was the only entity in our government that had the authority to declare war according to the Constitution. 
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
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Offline oldandslow

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2008, 05:20:17 AM »
Jager, I have a few years on you and you did a very good job of summing up presidents and their policies over the years. Clinton was just as bad as Carter about the military. Clinton balanced the budget but did it by gutting the military while in office. Reagan has been the only one who measured up as president. I was a little kid when Roosevelt was in office but still remember the talk about letting us be attacked by Japan as a way to pull us out of the depression.

There have been political parties ever since we have been a nation and their intent has always been the same: to have the power to shape the country for that parties benefit, not for the common man.

Offline Dee

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Re: So Tell Us What's So Good About The Libertarian Party
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2008, 08:41:22 AM »
I'm thinking one reason to not support the Libertarians is by the people I see giving them support. The nut don't fall far from the tree.

I'm thinking one reason to not support the Republican candidate, is that if YOU support him, he has to be a nut. One nut deserves another! ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett