Swaging Heeled Bullets?

[.22-5-40]

Hello, I see over on www.openrange.com forum, there is gaining interest on loading primed long rifle cases with black powder, for authentic smoky small bore!  These guys are having custom moulds made.  I was wondering if anyone has ever made..or had made for them, a swaging die for heel type bullets?  I am wondering how to eject the "heel" portion from forming die?  The factory .22 L.R. bullet has a cupped..almost spherical heel portion..or is this spherical portion the result of the crimping of case?  Thanks!

[talon]

At one time the Hurters Company built a swage die, some call an 'alligator die', that swaged bullets with grease groves. Using such a technique to put a deep cut heel on a .22rf slug would work. But having a group buy of bullet moulds from an outfit like LEE would be a more practical and I believe economic  way to go. This is only  because the 22rf's bullet weight/shape options are so limited.

[MIBullets]

Swage dies can be made to produce a heeled bullet. You just need the proper base punches. I have read about this in both of the Corbin brothers literature. I would contact them with yor questions.
Here is one link....
http://www.corbins.com/heelbase.htm
 

[talon]

While a punch can form a simple heal on a bullet, it can not form a waist, or indent around the bullet. That is to say, if a grove for the case rim to crimp in to is desired, a common LSWC swage punch won't do. The question isn't clear about just how much of the 'sphere' is desired. Up to 50%, no problem... 51%, where the sphere starts to get smaller, big problems.

[MIBullets]

That is true, a waist needs to be formed in a special two piece die (aligator die or similar) or put on after swaging. I didn't see any reference to this in his question though. His question was specific to 22 lr bullets and just a slight cup base in the bullet. There really shouldn't be a big need for a crimping groove either if the bullet is made of soft lead and the case is crimped into it. If you want lube grooves you would need to add those after, but at 22 lr speeds, a coating of a lube that dries to the touch like the one Rooster sells would probably be fine.

[.22-5-40]

Hello, everyone.  Thanks for replys.  I was thinking on that spherical heel..not a true ball..but there is a radius there.  I wonder how much this spherical shape has to do with the base slugging up when fired?  I have examined alot of fired .22 bullets, and there is usually only a thin line like gap where heel base was..it has slugged or obturated up to groove dia.  Now I know it's nearly pure lead..but we are only talking about 1.1gr. of powder!  Of course just to assemble a ctg./bullet, it wouldn,t have to have the spher. base.  MI Bullets..when you refer to an "aligator" die..are you talking about a "pinch die"..a two..or more piece die which is cam operated to move in a lateral direction?  Yes it would start to get expensive if this were used.  I took apart a Lapua .22 L.R. I used a .224 die in order to minimize bullet deformation, & carefull pushed case sideways while turning..bullet popped out with no trouble.
  What a nice looking bullet!  All radius & edges crisp and true.  radius on heel & cupped base look very precise.  These things are spit out by the millions..it is amazing they can do it with such precision!

[shootergdv]

Use a .22 mold for a gascheck boolit ?

[MIBullets]

An alligator die...hard to explain, but I will try. Think of a normal swage die that is split in two. These two pieces slide into a sleeve that holds them together so that thebullet can be swaged into the cavity. Then you eject the two piece die with bullet still in it from the sleeve. Take the two pieces apart to get your bullet out. This is not the fastest way to make bullets but does allow a person to add grooves and the like to a swaged bullets. The old RCBS dies to make .224 bullets worked very similar to this. I hope this kind of gives you an idea.

[.22-5-40]

Hello, and thanks for reply MiBullets.  Thanks for explanation..I'll bet that two piece grooved die was fun to make!