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Author Topic: .223 Bolt Action accuracy  (Read 1356 times)

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Offline CoffeeInMe

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.223 Bolt Action accuracy
« on: November 09, 2008, 07:28:34 AM »
Here is a link to the rifle I have if anyone needs more information...
http://www.savagearms.com/10fp.htm
My question is what is the least amount of accuracy you would accept from this rifle ? I will be shooting from a bipod and the rear will be resting on sand bags. My scope is a Nikon ProStaff 3-9 x 40. I will only be shooting factory loads. A couple of different ammo's I will be shooting is going to be some Federal 50 gn jacketed hollow point, and Hornady 75 gn bthp. So considering that I do my part and hold the rifle as steady as possible then what should be the worst group you would except from any given round of ammunition ? Im just looking for a "rule of thumb" so to speak that would be unacceptable. I want to know what this rifle should at least (at a minimum) be capable of at 100 yards.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 08:25:52 AM »
Quote
My question is what is the least amount of accuracy you would accept from this rifle ?

1/2 MOA, if I couldn't get better than that, I'd sell it.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 12:49:48 PM »
Since it is called a law enforcement series rifle I assume it's primarily intended for sniper duty thus basically the equivilent of a varmint rifle. I would agree that I'd expect to be able to find some loads able to do 1/2" at 100 yards for five shots. I don't think it's realistic to expect all loads or all groups even with it's chosen load to stay under 1/2" at 100 yards but once you find the load it likes it should be able to keep most all under 3/4" and some under 1/2" and it should stay within that range all the time. If it won't I'd find one that will.

I've owned numerous Remington Varmint rifles in .223 and so far have not found one that would not keep loads it likes under 0.75" at 100 yards for five shots pretty much all the time and it's not at all uncommon to turn in groups in the .2s and .3s. But you do not have enough scope on it to shoot such groups. If all you are gonna use is a 3-9 you are not gonna shoot groups like that. You need a lot more magnification to shoot such tiny groups regularly.

I generally mount a scope of 6-24 power or there about on rifles I expect such accuracy from. About the least I'd use is an Elite 3200 7-21 which is an excellent choice for such rifles.
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Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 12:51:21 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on November 09, 2008, 08:25:52 AM
Quote
My question is what is the least amount of accuracy you would accept from this rifle ?

1/2 MOA, if I couldn't get better than that, I'd sell it.

Swamp some day me or one of the other GBO members are gonna drop in on you and you're gonna hafta back up all those claims of groups you shoot. Excuses ain't gonna cut it then.
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Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline CoffeeInMe

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 02:23:57 PM »
Thanks for the help. I can certainly understand what your saying about the scope. I dont believe I bought a scope that matches the capability of the rifle. I might have to reconsider what I buy in the near future.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 03:00:52 PM »
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Swamp some day me or one of the other GBO members are gonna drop in on you and you're gonna hafta back up all those claims of groups you shoot. Excuses ain't gonna cut it then.

I do think a heavy barreled .223 ought to be able to shoot quite a bit better than a deer rifle.  I wouldn't own a deer rifle that wouldn't shoot at least 1 MOA.  Maybe I'm off base????
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 03:37:51 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on November 09, 2008, 03:00:52 PM
Quote
Swamp some day me or one of the other GBO members are gonna drop in on you and you're gonna hafta back up all those claims of groups you shoot. Excuses ain't gonna cut it then.

I do think a heavy barreled .223 ought to be able to shoot quite a bit better than a deer rifle.  I wouldn't own a deer rifle that wouldn't shoot at least 1 MOA.  Maybe I'm off base????

You must be one of those guys that once they luck into a 3 shot .5" group from that point on your rifle is a half MOA shooter "all day long" <whatever that means> nevermind that most 5 shot groups run in the 2" range ::)

 For me for a rifle to be called "X" accurate it MUST average that over the course of many 5 shot strings
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 06:59:01 PM »
Yup that's the reason I state my criteria in the manner I do. It's a long term average of groups that matter not one single nice group that is never again repeated and with a .223 especially a heavy barrel one I insist on five shot not three shot groups as I shoot with big game rifles.
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Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Swampman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 12:01:01 AM »
I guess I just expect too much.  I've never had much trouble finding accurate rifles.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline CoffeeInMe

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 01:11:31 AM »
I really do need to slow down and be more patient with my decisions in the future and consider all options. Too many times I get impatient and buy/sell things prematurely. I really do think I might want to get a higher magnification scope later some time but I will first see what I can accomplish with this.
Thanks for the help.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 01:29:09 AM »
I have that same scope on my .30-06.  It an ok scope, but it doesn't really lend itself to precision shooting.  If I focus it at 50 yards, it's out of focus at 100.  I haven't had that problem with my Bushnells and Leupolds.  I'll probably move it to one of my .22s in the future.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline DC

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 10:11:25 AM »
I have a Savage with the accutrigger, fluted barrel w/ a lam stock w/ palm swell.  While I really haven't spent a lot of time with it, I can do smoa groups with the right ammo with no problem.  I am convinced that if I got serious .5 or smaller groups are possible.  With that trigger, you can really close them up.  It really is a great rifle as evidenced by ground squirrel head shots at 190 yards. ;D
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Dana
Ruger M77 243, Browning B2000, Ruger 22's, Ruger Red Hawk, SBlackhawk, Savage 223 Target...about 20+rifles less than I used to have. :-(

Offline CoffeeInMe

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 12:13:58 PM »
I finally got a chance to shoot some more this evening. Here is my setup...

My wife sewed me some sand bags from some extra material we had and they came in handy.
I shot the Federal 50gn first and was getting like before just a hair over 1 inch groups at 50 yards. Then I started shooting the Hornady 75gn and man could I see a difference. I was actually able to turn my scope in with these loads. I then for the first time since Ive had this gun moved and shot from 100 yards and I must say that I was impressed.
This first one was a 4 shot group. I can only see 3 holes but I shot 4 times...

This next one was a three shot group...

I really do feel like if I had a better steady rest and a higher powered scope that I could have some fun with this rifle.
P.S. This is the first time in my life shooting this type of accuracy at this range and I thinks its cool and really wish I had more time and money :'(
Thanks again for all the help. The only thing I dont like about this rifle is how much it weighs but I knew that when I bought it. If some day I can buy the same kind of rifle with the regular barrel and get close to the same results then I believe I will trade or sell it.
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 01:11:54 PM »
Isn't that the regular barrel?  After all it's a varmint rifle. 
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Offline Tylermtech

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2008, 02:18:03 PM »
My 10FP would shoot 1/2 to 1 MOA 10 shot groups most of the time.  3-9 is not really a target scope, but I find that much over 14-15 X that the mirage becomes difficult to deal with, and unless its a target only gun, the reduced FOV makes scopes above 15 very hard to use.

Dont let the 1/9 twist scare you away from the 40 grain loads, you may find as I did that you rifle loves them.

Tyler
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Offline Skunk

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »
CoffeeInMe,

I really like your shooting setup! Congrats on the nice groups. I'm also very pleased with how my Savage shot right out of the box.

Ron,

It's a 10FP. That one comes standard with a varmint contour barrel.
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 03:31:56 PM »
Quote from: Skunk on November 10, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
CoffeeInMe,

I really like your shooting setup! Congrats on the nice groups. I'm also very pleased with how my Savage shot right out of the box.

Ron,

It's a 10FP. That one comes standard with a varmint contour barrel.

I like his set up as well, and yes I understand it comes with "a heavy free-floating and button-rifled barrel." He posted the specs in the first post.

I had the impression that he wanted a lighter sporter barrel.
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Offline Skunk

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 03:46:56 PM »
Quote from: Ron Byers on November 10, 2008, 03:31:56 PM

I like his set up as well, and yes I understand it comes with "a heavy free-floating and button-rifled barrel." He posted the specs in the first post.

I had the impression that he wanted a lighter sporter barrel.

Well, to me your post sort of sounded like you thought it was a regular barrel which at least to me would be a lighter sporter barrel, not a varmint contour.  ;)
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Mike

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Offline CoffeeInMe

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2008, 01:35:47 AM »
Thanks for the replies.
Yes Skunk you are right. Thats what I was talking about. I just dont know the correct terminology when it comes to different rifle barrels. I believe some or most of the lighter (sporter barrels ?) can shoot just as accurate or close to it from what Ive heard and read.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2008, 02:01:55 AM »
I agree!
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2008, 02:14:11 AM »
If you don't believe a buggie whip thin BBl. in 223 won't shoot the lights out try a Rem-XP-100 !
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Offline bigjeepman

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2008, 12:19:28 PM »
Here is my Savage 10FP in .223. I put a B&C stock on it along with a Bushnell 4200 Elite 6x24-40mm with Mildot reticle. It will shoot "lights out" but I have never shot 1/2" groups with it all day. It will do sub-moa all the time though with my 55gr reloads.


a few targets of days past ...




bjm

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Offline Casull

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 10:17:41 AM »
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but I have never shot 1/2" groups with it all day

I suspect very few have.   ;)
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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: .223 Bolt Action accuracy
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2008, 10:50:46 AM »
Looks like you're good to go with the rifle.  I'd expect it to shoot 3/4" or less consistently with the loads it likes. 

That rifle's got a 1-9" twist barrel on it, so the heavier bullets should shoot the best in it, but not always. 

I'd get a bit more scope myself, with an adjustable objective or side parallax adjustment on it.  I've shot scopes up to 24x, and in the field, I've learned that I can't effectively use more than 14x or so from field positions.  If all you plan on doing is shooting from a bench set-up, you might look at a fixed power scope from 15x or higher.
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