308 and cast bullets troubles

[Dezynco]

Great!  I found a forum to discuss Encore pistols!

I have decided to get into Encore handgunning.  I purchased a 15" .308 barrel.  I would like to shoot cast lead bullets for most of my plinking and informal target shooting.  The problem is that when I push the velocities over about 1400 fps, I can't get a group at 100 yards.  Some shots don't even hit the page!

I have two weights in cast bullets - 160 grain and 180 grain, both with gas checks.  Same problem with both.  I can load with Unique, keeping the velocities down and can shoot a very nice 3-4" group.  But when I try Reloader 7, IRM 30-31, 2400, IMR 4198, or any other powder that pushes the speed up a bit, say to 2000 fps or so, I loose accuracy.

I do not have this problem with jacketed bullets, all different weights and styles seem to work well.

I'm using the reloading tables in the back of the Lyman book.  They have a whole section in the back just for TC pistols that I have been following.  However I did flip to the front of the book and loaded a few "rifle" cartridges with the same bullets to no avail.

Any suggestions?

[tn_junk]

Pick up a Lee Loading handbook. He has a very large and detailed section on loading cast bullets for the .308.
I used his info when I was loading .30-30 Cast and the loads worked very well.

alan

[sweetwyominghome]

Your bullets may simply be too soft for any higher velocities. Do you know what the Brinell hardness of these may be?

[Odinbreaker]

Have you tried 2400 powder I get good accuracy with my 3006 and 173 gr gas check.  It is a slower burning powder also more bulk that fills the case more.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I'm assuming you're wanting cast bullets for the cost factor? You may consider the jacketed 30-30 "bulk" bullets from Remington or Winchester? I've shot the Remington's 150 gr round nose that come in the bag. They're just the old standard "Corelokt" bullets. Shoot pretty decent for me outa my Contender 30-30, and you can still download them for plinking.

Just a thought, worth every penny you paid for it!

[Dezynco]

Well, cost is not too much of an issue.  I just like using cast bullets.  I figgured the Encore barrel would be capable of reasonable accuracy with almost any bullet.  I'm not disappointed, maybe surprised and puzzled, but not disappointed.  I shot some this afternoon with 130 grain JSP's loaded with IMR 3031, and WOW!  Talking about fun!   Managed to pop a Coke can at 150 yards!

[shotgun31]

What diameter are you sizing the bullet.  I use a .311 for a lyman 31141, with wheelweights or a mix like lyman #2.  Real good accuracy with a 30-06 and a .308 when I had that gun.  I use 4198 have used 3031, 4064, all good results.
Shotgun 

[Dezynco]

I believe it's going to be a sizing issue.  I posted a thread over on "The Firing Line" also, and this is what was suggested there too.

I hadn't thought of the bullet size as being a problem.  I'll try sizing a bit larger, or no sizing at all, just seat the gas check.

[WayneS]

1. How well does it group with jacketed bullets ? Cast bullets should almost equal jacketed groups at 100 yds

2. What molds are you useing ? RCBS,SAECO, ??

3. Try positioning the powder charge {raise the muzzle at least 45 deg.}

4. If you can't make a chamber cast to determine the THROAT Dia. which you should be sizing to; ie; 310 throat, size to 310.
   
5. Mike your bullets both on the driving bands and the nose or bore riding section of the bullet and let us know what you have

6.Gas check you bullets, hand lube some and try.

7. See if a cast bullet will stay seated in an unsized case ? if it will try a few that way. Don't laugh, I used to carry an MTM box full of 30-30's with cast bullets seated  like that to matches

[woodchukhntr]

Check this out:  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=56618.0;wap2

Look into "The Load", the 5th post down in the above link.

[Steve P]

Another vote for sizing and possibly hardness.  I shoot lots of cast bullets in contenders and many are up into the 1700fps+.  My cast bullets are dropped from mold into bucket of water to quench.  Also, depending on the barrel, size .001 - .002 over bore.  My T/C .308 barrels all get .310 cast bullets.  My fav's in 30 cal are RCBS 165 Sil and Saeco 190.  I also have some of the smaller 100-110 grain bullets, but I don't push them that fast.

Good Luck,

Steve 

[Dezynco]

Ok!  This afternoon, I shot 2, three shot groups.  All three bullets in both groups were touching!  At 75 yards!

My old daddy and I decided to fiddle with the 180 grain RCBS mold some more.  We used a 32 caliber sizing die to seat the gas check and lube the bullets.  That way I was only lubing and seating the gas check, not sizing at all.  Using IMR 4198, got nice results!  I think that mold drops bullets that are around .311 with wheel weight alloy.

I'll experiment some more tomorrow!  Thanks guys for the good tip, I forgot about that trick!

[AH-1]

might want to try some AA5744.it was made for shooting cast and has worked in everything I have tried it in.good stuff.
pete