could use some opinions!!

[okieshooter]

I am looking at buying a 209x50 endeavor. I can get it for $800 plus tax. I can then order one PH barrel and forearm for just over $300 if I order it all at the same time. Will be used for deer 2-300 yds being my long shot. Would like to stockpile ammo for hard times, so what caliber would you recommend? 270, 308 or maybe something else. Wanna make sure it is a caliber known accurate in TC as 2-3 inch groups will never make me happy. Will I have to start reloading to be accurate with TC centerfire and is this a decent price ?

[Grumulkin]

If I understand it correctly, you wish to buy a 209X50 Encore muzzle loader and an additional barrel in some as yet to be decided chambering.

I don't think $800 for an Encore muzzle loader is a particularly good price.  I usually shop gunbroker.com and would expect to pay perhaps $325 for a SS frame.  SS muzzle loader barrels can be a bit pricey; I bought mine several years ago new for about $180 if I remember correctly; they'll probably cost you at least $250 now.  The stock and forend will run another $80.  So...if I were buying one now, I would probably expect to pay ~ $650 for excellent used or new components.  Of course, I would probably have to wait and shop for awhile to get it at these prices.

As far as the cartridge to pick, I would say 308 Winchester for your purposes.  Any rifle I've had with one exception did better with handloads than with any type of factory ammunition.  The one exception was an Encore 375 H&H Mag. that liked Federal Premium ammunition.  With handloaded ammunition, a 308 Win. Encore rifle should do better than 1 MOA and if you get the good match ammo, that could likely be quite accurate.  In face, in my 308 Win. Encore, some cheap soft nosed military surplus Argentine ammo proved to be quite accurate.

[kyelkhunter3006]

If I understand it correctly, you wish to buy a 209X50 Encore muzzle loader and an additional barrel in some as yet to be decided chambering.

I don't think $800 for an Encore muzzle loader is a particularly good price.  I usually shop gunbroker.com and would expect to pay perhaps $325 for a SS frame.  SS muzzle loader barrels can be a bit pricey; I bought mine several years ago new for about $180 if I remember correctly; they'll probably cost you at least $250 now.  The stock and forend will run another $80.  So...if I were buying one now, I would probably expect to pay ~ $650 for excellent used or new components.  Of course, I would probably have to wait and shop for awhile to get it at these prices.

As far as the cartridge to pick, I would say 308 Winchester for your purposes.  Any rifle I've had with one exception did better with handloads than with any type of factory ammunition.  The one exception was an Encore 375 H&H Mag. that liked Federal Premium ammunition.  With handloaded ammunition, a 308 Win. Encore rifle should do better than 1 MOA and if you get the good match ammo, that could likely be quite accurate.  In face, in my 308 Win. Encore, some cheap soft nosed military surplus Argentine ammo proved to be quite accurate.

Grumulkin hit it right on the head.  There's no way I'd pay out the money for the Endeavor, or the Pro Hunter for that matter.  Sorry, but for me, a couple hundred (Pro Hunter) to several  hundred (Endeavor) dollars for a nifty breech plug  and stock, and a barrel that's 2" longer than the regular gun is a waste of money.  I've seen several regular models in stainless with the composite or laminate stocks for under $550, NIB, on gunbroker.  I've seen NIB blued and comp models for as little as $400.  I love T/C, but they are really taking the Encore model gimmicks to the extreme, IMHO.  Stick the the regular model, and you can get a NIB 209x50, a NIB stainless 26" heavy barrel, and a couple of decent scopes for the same price or less than what you've paying for the Endeavor alone, even less if you get the blued gun and barrels.  I'd go with a .308 or the 30-06, tons of surplus and cheap factory ammo for both, great accuracy, and you can aways buy the super premium stuff for them if you feel the need.  You'll also be able to buy ammo for them anywhere, whether it's Bass Pro Shops or Dick & Jane's Corner Market in the middle of nowhere in Montana.

[Kurt L]

I also agree 100% with above + on the 308 heavy 26" barrel.

[okieshooter]

piecing one together will cost about 650.00, plus shipping, plus paying for use of FFL to ship to. It looks to me as if there would be very little difference in price between an old style encore or the new Endeavor. I could get black stocks cheaper and go back to Pro Hunter and get it for around 725.00-750.00. Most places I have looked at PH heavy barrels they run about 298.00 so I would about be getting the forend free at 300.00 for both. I am trying to figure this out so if my math is wrong please let me know. 

[kyelkhunter3006]

Well, it really depends on yourself, I guess. 

Right now I'm looking at a NIB Encore with brown laminate stocks, stainless, for $575 plus $25 shipping.  That's $600. 

I also am looking at a NIB blued/camo Encore for $425 plus $13 shipping for a total of $438. 

The cheapest Pro Hunter I've seen is a blued one for $650 plus shipping with is $30, the cheapest Endeavor is $800 shipped and running up to $900 plus shipping. 

If you compare blued to blued, that's over $200 less.  Stainless to stainless, it's  $200 to $300 less.  Either way, the difference could pay for a blued or a stainless 26" heavy barrel (not a Pro Hunter), or it could put a decent Leupold or Nikon scope on the gun.  To me, that's not a small difference.

BUT, and it's big but (LOL), if you have the money to burn and really want to go the Endeavor route, I won't try to change your mind.  If people didn't buy the new stuff for whatever reason, then the companies wouldn't have much reason to keep going with R&D of new ideas.  If you want it, buy it.  For me, after handling (maybe fondling is a better word) both, the differences in the two aren't worth the differences in price.

[okieshooter]

I am starting to see the light on price difference. If the laminate was on gun broker I seen it also and it was one of my picks also. I found a grey laminate stainless with bid of 535.00 or buy for 560.00 plus 25.00 shipping. I posted another question about stainless or blued and would appreciate thoughts on that also. thanks for the help guys!!!

[okieshooter]

I have not found laminate forends for sale. If I buy a laminate gun can I find these easy enough for rifle barrels??

[kyelkhunter3006]

Everything I was talking about is on gunbroker.  I saw the gray one too.  The laminates are sharp looking guns.  EABCO used to sell laminate forends, I think that they still do.  Boyd Gun Stocks sells them too.  Also, I haven't looked lately, but you used to be able to find a TON of Encore stuff on ebay.  Barrels, stocks, forends, etc.  Usually good prices too.

When I am putting together equipment, I try to think of it as a system, really.  What is my goal for the system?  What kind of funds do I have to put toward it?  I look at what my total investment is going to be.   And the dreaded "man, do I really need this?"    Well, of course I do!   

Besides, I am a natural TIGHT WAD.  I will fully admit that I'm a discount shopper and I'm not going to pay more than I have to. 

Also, there have been a lot of times that I've watched an auction be relisted several times with no buyer, then I make an offer to them.  Sometimes it flies, sometimes not.  I do get free shipping probably 7 out of 10 times that I try for it.  Depends on the seller. 

There's a guy on auctionarms that just won't deal on anything.  There are a couple of scopes that he's been relisting for 3 YEARS.  He won't cut a deal on all three, and he won't combine shipping or ship for free.  He says that he'll lose money.     Coming from a long retail background, I can tell you that guy has already lost everything he can on those scopes, because he's had them for so long.

[okieshooter]

My local gun shop (an hour away) has a stainless laminate for 620.00 plus tax so about 680.00 total. I like to buy from small shops to try and help keep them in business so I am trying to get him to around 610.00 to 630.00 out the door. If he goes for it I will buy it, if not may have to start ordering off the net and getting them shipped to him.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I too try to shop the small guys when I can.  My transfer guy is pretty cool about it.  I'll tell him what I want, and what I've found it for on the net.  If he can come close, I'll buy it from him.  If not, then I have it shipped to him for transfer.  He charges me $20 and he emailed a copy of his ffl to put on my PC so I can just email copied and then let him know that something is on the way.

I'll also say that I've been burned and been attempted to be screwed by most local dealers around here.  I've never had a problem with a dealer on the net.  Not one.

[PTH]

My opinion is short, go with a .270, I have 2 and love both of them. I've killed 100+ deer with a .270, it shoots flat and hard.

[martineta]

My brother and I just bought the new endeavor barrels for our encores.  I love mine but then again we are both what marketing folks call early adopters.  We paid a premium, Who cares.  Life is short.  I have the barrel for another 30 years, it cost me $10 a year,  I quit Cigs a couple of years ago and have already saves $6,000 not smoking.  That my friend is a lot of money to buy new toys with.

I love the 308, I have one in Pro Hunter also.  Get what you like.