Author Topic: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers  (Read 1172 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« on: July 04, 2008, 08:46:59 AM »
I was reading another post and someone said alcoholics and smokers never get over the cravings.  They may quite but the cravings are still there.  I agree with him to a point.  I sat down and thought about my situation.  After some honest reflection, I decided to pass on my experiences maybe it will help someone else to quite.

Drinking

I started drinking right after Basic Training.  I was 19 at the time.  Back then if you had a military ID card you could buy booze at the base liquor store.  The guys in the dorm had little to do after work each day, so they sat in the dorm, or the local snack bar and drank, till time for bed.  Often skipping dinner for a liquid meal.  After four years of dorm life, I moved in with a couple that both drank heavily.  Every morning we each had to have a drink to stop the shakes.  One drink would get them slowed so we could start doing other things, but it took two drinks to stop them.  Then an hour later we would start getting a headache so we would take two more drinks to stop the headache.  The rest of the day we would be sneaking a drink here and there, not realizing how much we were really drinking.  Then when we got off work each day we would go home and have a couple of drinks while we fixed dinner and watched TV.  Then after dinner the serious drinking started.  I would drink a fifth of Vodka alone from dinner till I went to bed.  After several years of this I got orders to go to Alaska.  That is when my buddies wife pointed out I was drinking between two and three fifths of Vodka a day.  She was drinking two six packs of beer and a fifth of Jim Beam everyday.  Her husband was drinking two fifths of Southern Comfort each day.  She asked me if I could quite drinking, I laughed, I did not have a problem she had a problem.  I went home on leave before going to Alaska.  Gosh it was hard sneaking a drink without my Mother knowing.  As we went to visit relatives in the car the DTs would set in.  I would get the shakes till I could get a drink or two.  Many times I was desperate for a drink, but fear of my mother kept me from letting that fact out.  My mother is a mean, vicious, abusive woman.  My Dad did notice, but he did not say anything.  The day they took me to the airport to catch my flight was such a relief.  At the airport I bought 12 of those little bottles of vodka for the trip to Chicago, some more in Chicago to get me to Seattle.  Then more to get me to Anchorage, and to Fairbanks.  It felt good getting back to my normal state of drunken bliss.  I told you guys this so you will know how bad off I was.  I was spending almost my entire paycheck each month on Vodka.  Good thing the base sold it cheap back then.  But the most ironic thing was that few people knew.  I operated equipment, drove trucks, cars, and my motorcycle everyday.  And no one knew.  I'm not proud of doing that, it's just a fact.  And I survived some really stupid things, like the night I opened the door and got out of the car going 70 mph on the freeway.  I slid forever, got up brushed myself off and walked away, looking for a drink.  God protects fools and drunks.  That night I got a double dose, cause I was both.

When I got to Fairbanks, I was in a state of bliss.  I walked into the dorm, and there were the guys sitting in the hallway floor.  Most were drinking wine, all were drinking something.  Several were stupid drunk, and belligerent.  I dealt with them and went to my room.  I came back out into the hallway looking at them and feeling disgusted by their attitude and condition.  I never got that drunk, or that stupid, I knew better.  I needed a drink.  I went to the liquor store and bought a bottle of Irish Mist, and a bottle of Vodka.  I went back to my room and opened the Vodka.  Poured myself a drink and suddenly it dawned on me, NO I was just like them!  No different!

I decided right then I was going to quite.  I poured the drink out and went to bed.  During the night DTs set in.  That weekend was the most horrible time of my life.  I hallucinated, I cried, I threw up, I pulled my hair out in big clumps.  BUT I survived.  My body was so racked with pain, I had trouble holding food down for the first week.  It was two weeks before the shakes quite.  I beat it.  I still have that bottle of Irish Mist unopened, it's sitting on the counter in the kitchen now, along with several bottles of rum, Beam, and assorted blends.  Most have been sitting there for 15 to 20 years.  That bottle of Irish Mist reminds me of what I went through and that I will never go there again.  Oh I still have a drink every now and then.  I drink about one or two glasses of wine a month with meals when visiting friends.  I like a little Beam in my egg nog around Christmas.  Or when we go dancing I'll have a drink when we get to the club.  But never more than two Rum and Cokes.  Then I switch to straight Coke.  I no longer have the urge to drink like I did back then.  It's now just a social thing, that I can take or leave.  The craving is gone.


SMOKING

I started smoking when I was in basic training.  I smoked more after basic, and lived with some pretty heavy smokers.  The fellows in the dorm smoked constantly back in the late 60s.  I smoked sometimes three packs a day.  I did not care what I smoked either, as long as I was smoking.  At that time I also was drinking.  I had a drink in my hand and a cigarette in my mouth constantly.  My first wife also was a smoker.  One day while working outside in the rain, I really got desperate.  I had to be working outside and I could not keep a cigarette going due to the heavy rain.  They kept getting wet and going out.  My partner smoked a pipe, he simply turned the pipe upside down and continued to smoke.  On break I went to the BX and got a pipe and tobacco.  Once I started smoking the pipe I noticed that I was not smoking as much.  And a lot of times the pipe was out but I was still getting the taste and flavor from drawing on the pipe.  I did notice that in the mornings the stale taste of tobacco was not as bad as when I smoked the cigarettes.  Then I spent the weekend with the Ex-wife and my son, she kissed me that morning and my gosh it was horrible.  She reeked, and her mouth was so stale and sour.  I decided right then I was going to quite.  Even thou I pulled out my pipe and lite up, just to get rid of the taste in my mouth.  On the way back to Anchorage later that day I threw the pipe and tobacco out the window and have not lite up since.  I had quite drinking so I knew I could quite smoking.  The craving was there, but I determined that I was not going to give in.  It's been 22 years now, and sometimes I get the craving to pick up a pipe, I have many sitting in curio cabinets that are collectors items.  But then I think about kissing the EX and the craving for tobacco is gone.

Any addiction can be beat, it just takes determination.  Therein lies the problem, most addicts don't want to quite.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline kevthebassman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 979
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 09:24:35 AM »
I think that some people are more apt to have an addiction than others.  I dipped for four years during and after high school, pretty heavily for a while.  One day I noticed bumps on my lip and my teeth starting to look bad, so I just quit.  First couple of weeks I thought I could use a dip, but after a while I just never thought about it.

I never have had much of a taste for alcohol.  I like a beer as much as the next guy I suppose, and I've even had some times when I tied it on pretty good for a few days in a row when I'm on vacation, but I've never needed a drink.

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 11:46:30 AM »
Not everyone that drinks is a drunkard; not everyone that smokes is an addict.  Sometimes the people outgrow the psychological need for the physical dependency or their situation changes: a change of jobs, a change of wives :D, etc. 

Sourdough, your statement that you "no longer HAVE  the craving for booze", that you have "beat the craving" contradicts about 99% of the data I have read and 100% of the information given to me by long term "recovering" alcoholics. You are a lucky man.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 11:57:11 AM »
beemanbeme:  You are absolutely right, look at me I drink and I am no longer an alcoholic.  I no longer need it, or desire it.  I have friends that say once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.  I disagree with that statement.  Things change you can outgrow your need for those crutches.  The problem then is the physical dependency, some people can't get over that.

As for the cravings, smoking yes.  I often want to pick up a pipe or a cigar, I think "Oh How Good It Would Taste".  Then I say, "No don't need it".  As for the Alcohol, no I have never needed or felt that I needed a drink.  Personally I could go on forever with out ever drinking a single drink.  I only have one to be sociable, or when in a social setting.  Now I crave Egg Nog during the holidays, but the beam can be left out with out my caring too much, I just think it taste better with that little bite.

My Ex-wife is the one that has the hardest time with the startement that I don't crave it any more.  She knew me when I was addicted and can't believe it.  Every time she comes over she looks at that bottle of Irish Mist sitting on the counter and shakes her head.   
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline deltecs

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1605
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 12:56:45 PM »
I can only relate my experiences.  I like to drink socially when I go to town and on most occasions wind up on the verge of inebriation.  I don't drink in the morning and try to pace myself to 2 drinks an hour.  A long afternoon and short evening with associates leaves me pretty much buzzed by the end of the sitting.  Anyway I don't drink at home at all, unless I have visitors, don't crave one, and have plenty on hand.  Visitors are few and far between.  I go for months without drinking anything.  I'm lucky that I don't crave a drink.  Many people I know must have a drink just to start the day and drink continually throughout it.  If they don't have one, they crave one.  I'd quit smoking for over 8 years cold turkey, when in a car a friend lit one and I thought I'd try one just to see the effects.  I believed I didn't have the desire to smoke or the habit anymore.  Well, as one can guess, I talked myself on the next day to have a few cigarettes that wouldn't hurt.  By the end of the week, my nicotine craving and habit was exactly back to the state when I decided to quit.  I'm still smoking, currently.  Not the smartest of moves.  I think some people's physiology or make up is more inclined toward dependency from bad habits than others.  I'm more addicted to nicotine than alcohol.  Others I know are more vice versa.  Some are addicted to both along with other bad habits.  I think it depends on genetics as to dependency or ease of quitting a bad habit.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline GRIMJIM

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3002
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 01:42:31 PM »
I used to constantly have a beer in my hand but never really considered myself an addict. Nowq a days I can go for months without ever having a drink and stop after a couple.

I have a friend that is an alcaholic. He hasn't had a drink in years but still has the craving sometimes. He only drank occassionally but once he started he could not stop until he passed out. He cannot understand how I can have a drink or two and stop.

As for smoking I started at 11, pretty young I know. I quit when I was 22. I started again when my wife got pregnant, smoked for a year and quit for 6years until my wife got pregnant again. It was amazing to me that after only a week or so I was right back up to 2 packs a day. I smoked for a couple of years and my children got really curious about it. They wanted to get my smokes for me and light them for me, I didn't want them to end up smokers so I quit again and haven't had a smoke since.
GBO SENIOR MEMBER "IF THAT BALL COMES IN MY YARD I'M KEEPING IT!"

NRA LIFE MEMBER

UNION STEWARD CARPENTERS LOCAL 1027

IF GOD DIDN'T WANT US TO EAT ANIMALS, WHY DID HE MAKE THEM OUT OF MEAT?

Offline JonD.

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2008, 03:00:15 PM »
I have been smoke free for 4years now, and sometimes when I do certain things or go to certain places(like in a deer-stand or sitting on the lawnmower) I think boy I would like to smoke one. But this wears off in a second or two and I don't think about it anymore.

I haven't took a drink in 11 years, and every now and then I think I would like to drink a beer, but unlike smoking I have to fight with that one for more than a second or two. Both are very nasty and sinful habits that are very hard to quit.

But I tell you one that is much harder to quit than smoking, drinking or drugs---and that is over-eating. For me, it is by far much much harder to stop eating than it is to quit any other thing I've quit. You have to eat to survive. Smoking, drinking and drug addictions are not essential for you to live, and you can do without them more easily, but you must eat food, and it is very hard to control how much food you eat.

Offline bilmac

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 05:26:10 PM »
Sourdough
You are one strong willed guy. Kudos.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 08:50:24 PM »
No I am currently fighting the hardest fight of my life.  Sugar, I'm addicted to anything sweet.  I have always eaten sweets and never gave it a thought.  A few months ago I was informed that I am diabetic.  I have to give up sugar and complex carbs.  I will do OK for a week or two, then I will binge.  This one is proving to be somewhat harder.  I have been eating a high carb diet all my life.  Lots of breads, potatoes, pasta, cookies, cakes, and ice cream.  I crave bread.  So far I have gotten off the cakes, cookies, and ice cream.  The potatoes and breads are giving me fits. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline bilmac

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2008, 02:02:38 AM »
When you quit the booze was that the hardest fight you had ever fought? The same when you quit coffin nails? You have a history of winning, and I'll put my money on you. I'll also pray for you this morning.

Offline oldandslow

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3962
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2008, 02:28:24 AM »
Hang in there Sourdough. If you managed to quit booze and tobacco you can beat sugar.

I can't comment on quiting alcohol as it has never been a problem. Never liked hard liquor much and can't stand wine. But I do like a beer with BBQ or mexican food.

I smoked until March, 1972 when I quit cold turkey. For a while when I would smell a cigarette I would get the urge to smoke but that gradually went away. For years now tobbaco awakes no cravings. In fact cigarettes and cigars smell terrible now.

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 05:08:40 AM »
Congratulations Sourdough, your situation is all too familiar.

I started drinking "socially" with family when I was 12 or 13.  My step-dad (an alcoholic) and I went through many bottles of Windsor and Coke before I ever hit high school.  I was known for my keggers in high school, then REALLY started drinking when I joined the military.  As you shared, I also have MANY stories that should have ended in death or jail time.  I am ashamed of them, but can honestly say none have truly been "life changing".  My parents, grandparents, and wife came VERY close to losing me one night in Sep 2005....but I still haven't come to appreciate the need for me to stop drinking.

This tour in Iraq has been the longest I, and 99.9% of my soldiers, have gone without drinking.  THIS proves there is no "chemical dependency", but we all look forward to getting back to the states and having that first drink together.  I am sure the binge drinking will start for most that first night back.

Once again, congratulations on man-ing up and taking control of your life again!  I hope to be in your shoes someday.....on my own terms.

The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline Chilachuck

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 06:10:27 AM »
I can only speak for myself on addiction.

Tobacco nearly killed me to quit. The hunger for tobacco returned off and on for 15 years, slowly coming less often. I think the last time it hit was about 10 years ago.

I no longer have the hunger, but the habit of watching for it is fixed.

If alcohol addiction is similar, then the urge to drink can sneak up on people and they can end up wasted with a reawakened addiction without noticing anything until it's too late.

Tobacco does not effect judgment, so a smoker can put the cigarette out as soon as he realizes he has one lit, or he can get out of a smoke filled room. That allows him to cut the amount of drugs he is taking in, and reduce how long the hunger will last, making it easier to quit again. If the smoker is paying attention.

Booze? A drinker cannot judge how bad off he is until he is sober, and cannot quit unless he is sober. That sounds like a nasty trap to me.

On second hand smoke; I've known people who became addicted to tobacco from the smoke in the air. Any bets that some of the children having trouble in school are actually going through nicotine withdrawal?

Offline GRIMJIM

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3002
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 01:59:57 PM »
My grandmother died of lung cancer and never smoked a day in her life. Of course everyone else in the house smoked like a chimney.
GBO SENIOR MEMBER "IF THAT BALL COMES IN MY YARD I'M KEEPING IT!"

NRA LIFE MEMBER

UNION STEWARD CARPENTERS LOCAL 1027

IF GOD DIDN'T WANT US TO EAT ANIMALS, WHY DID HE MAKE THEM OUT OF MEAT?

Offline alsaqr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 02:37:41 PM »
Like Sourdough I started smoking and boozing in the Army.   On 17 July, 77 I just up and quit drinking.  Was 2 years from retirement and decided not to retire from the Army as a drunk.  In 1984 went to the VA hospital in Pittsburgh for plastic surgery on my nose.  Got it busted all to heck in drunken brawls in the 60s.  They put me in the ENT ward.  Was sitting on my bunk talking with a pretty black nurse and asked what was wrong with all the guys on the ward.   

Me:  "They look like they are dying." 
Nurse:  They are dying from smoking and that damn pipe is going to kill you."   
Me:  "I suggest not." 

Cleaned out my pipe bown and threw pipe, tobacco and lighter into the trash.  Have not smoked once since.  Went to college at age 45.  The social studies claimed that alcoholism is a "disease."  Pi$$ed him off when I told him it is a crutch and not a "disease" at all.  Anyone who wants to quit boozing can do so. 

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 06:57:04 PM »
By calling it a disease they are trying to remove the stigma.  And in a way justifying their not quiting.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline bluebayou

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2008, 09:34:13 PM »
Well, my 2 cents is that the "disease" of alcoholism is just simply depression.  In my experience drunks are self medicating for being depressed/pissed off/can't let go of my mistakes.  Same thing, different name.  Oh, woe is me.

That being said.  I don't really drink anymore.  I like a beer with Mexican food or pizza every now and then.  But that is it.  I had a low point and realized that I was drinking to get drunk (cue the Eagles and "some dance to remember, some dance to forget").  Made some stupid decisions involving a gorgeous, but unfaithful woman and a plain, but devoted woman.  Its done, I am not whining about it.........but that is why I quit drinking for effect. 

I have insomnia.  Have slept 5 hours a night on average for last 20 years.  You want to bet that I haven't had some long nights wanting alcohol or ANYTHING?  You betcha. 

I smoked for 18 years.  I quit 2 year and 5 months ago.  Have smoked probably...........10 cigarettes since then.  I WANT them maybe twice per week.  I WOULD KINDA LIKE ONE maybe.....every day.  When I break down and smoke them then they taste like crap.

Part of me thinks that a big difference is being realistic.  Like Sourdough says about justifying not quitting..........."oh, I drank one beer, my 90 days of sobriety is over, might as well get drunk"  What a bunch of crap.  So you drank one beer.  With most it is an excuse.

Just go on tangent here with me, but try living in chronic pain.  I have spinal injury, repaired shoulder, and 2 repaired knees.  I have had a headache for 6 years this week.  I got hurt on July 18, 2002.  Not to be a whining baby, but basically I hurt from the time that my head leaves the pillow.  The less that I sleep the better as there is no comfortable position.  I have taken Tramadol, Darvocet, Oxycontin, Soma, Asprin, Tylenol, Advil, Alleve, seizure medicines (Neurotin), depression medicines (Elavil), Alzheimers medicines (Namenda), you name it.  Been to 3 neurosurgeons, 2 neurologists, 2 orthopedists, pain specialist, you name it. 

Been taking meds for 4 years until a month ago.  I decided that I am just going to have headaches and pain.  And that is it.  Taking all of that crap hasn't worked for 4 years.  Why should it now?  What?  I am going to take pain meds for the next 40 years? 

So my point is that sooner or later you just have to accept that a) you got hurt, b) it is no one's fault, there is no one to blame, c) there is no one to be mad at, and d) you don't have control over life, God does. 

Alcoholics in particular blame themselves, their parents, their tormentors, God, whatever.  But bottom line is that I think that they are just clinically depressed.  Regardless of what you might think of therapy or anything, people brains work differently.  Some people need real medications, but are too busy drinking to fight or just drinking to put themselves to sleep. 

Maybe I got a little off topic there.


Offline Chilachuck

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 03:40:43 PM »
I'm not buying that "self medication" bit, not from my own experience. I get depressed sober and can shake it. Can't shake depression when I'm drunk.

I think booze is making the problem for the depressed drunks and they use the problem to justify the drinking.

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2008, 05:43:52 PM »
I almost lost my mind quiting cigarettes, but I did it. I can't imagine being addicted to drugs or alcohol. The tobacco addiction was brutal and almost impossible for me to believe. Not one in 19 years.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline bilmac

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 01:29:51 AM »
I don't usually believe in the " it isn't my fault it's my genes" arguement, but look at Indians. I've known some of the nicest guys you ever want to meet who are indian but not one of them can handle alcohol. You could say that living a communistic lifestyle (being handed money that is not earned) results in low self esteem that results in alcoholism, but Indians have suffered from this problem historically before there were reservations. No one is going to convince me that homos are that way because of their genes though.

Offline alsaqr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2008, 02:46:54 AM »
Quote
but Indians have suffered from this problem historically before there were reservations.



Most native Americans have some kind of genetic makeup that does not tolerate alcohol.  The Navahos and others get fat when they get off their traditional diet.  Those very few who stay on their traditional diet stay slim and trim with few health problems. 

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2008, 08:49:25 AM »
Have seen many scientific studies about native Americans and their inability to tolerate alcohol.  Go to a bar in Fairbanks on a Friday night, you will see first hand the differences.  Eskimo or Indian, results are the same.

My neighbor's son (German and French Canadian decent) turned 21.  A bunch of his friends wanted to take him and a couple of his buddies out drinking.  ( A right of passage in our society today).  His buddies were Native American.  They had all grown up together, had shared in everything, and were like three brothers.  My son being a year younger, and not allowed to drink, agreed to drive them there and pick them up.  This was all concocted by the young men, parents knew nothing of this.   When my neighbor's son called my son to pick them up, he told my son not to bring my truck that all could sit inside the crew cab, but to bring my old truck, the one with a shell.  Now the three of them had drank drink for drink, same thing.  The neighbor's son was toasted as my son puts it.  But at least mobile.  The other two were laid out.  They had been cut off by the bar tender, but the effects of what they had already drank kept getting worse.  Soon they lost bladder control, then the ability to get up and walk.  They were also getting belligerent, which is not like these two young men.  As the two mobile men were trying to get the two non-mobile men into the truck, accompanied with a lot of yelling, cursing, and swearing.  Someone thought they were all drunk, blocked in the truck and called the police.  My son realizing he was now in over his head, called me.  I went right down there.  I got there just ahead of the police.  I told the officers that my son and I were there to take them home.  I Zip tied their wrist to their ankles, boy that took the fight right out of them.  I dumped them into the back of the truck like a bag of feed, then locked the shell door.  I also made the other two ride in the back with them.  I then proceeded to their homes where I went and got their mothers and fathers out of bed to accept their inebriated sons.  All four young men had exceeded the limits that night, although two did not realize it till the next day.  I even got my neighbor and his wife out of bed to see the results of the night.

The next time I saw them they were all so apologetic, they were falling all over themselves trying to ask forgiveness about how they had acted.  As I said before they were well mannered, well behaved young men that I had known since they were in third grade.  They thought the Zip Ties were a bit brutal, but they deserved it.  At least it kept them out of jail.  The following weekend a friend arraigned a 4 AM tour of the jail on a Saturday morning for those four young men (My son included).  They realized how close they came to going there.  Not Cool.

Speaking of Drunk Tanks.  When I was still at home, one of my younger brothers thought he was real smart, and tried to shoplift something.  He got caught  He really fought the arresting cop so the county sheriff decided to keep him for the weekend.  Dad was out of town, and the sheriff said Mom could not handle the kid.  The Sheriff had him put in the drunk tank.  After spending the weekend in there, he has walked the straight and narrow ever since.  Just talk about spending the weekend in jail and he brakes out in a sweat.

     
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline rex6666

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Gender: Male
Re: Open Letter to Drunks and Smokers
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 09:06:12 AM »
I have read every thing hear, some know what alcoholism is and some don't have a clue.
I always thought an alcoholic is the guy that can't keep a job or relationship, because of drinking
and this is true. I drank for 35+ years don't remember ever craving a drink, some do, i don't
remember ever having the DTs but have set and held the hand of some that did.
Drinking to me was just as much a part of me as breathing, it is just what i did.
for years i could drink with the best and never stagger, then it got to where when i took
 the first drink i would not stop until i blacked out (not passed out their is a difference) i would remember it being 9pm then wake up some where maybe at home at 7am i would go back to the bar that nite to see when i had left the nite before, answer was always "when we closed"
lost 4-5hrs blacked out, still mobile. March 8 1998 was a Sunday mourning, i got up looked
out the window to see if my truck was there, got a cup of coffee and cig. set down and tried
to remember what happened last nite suddenly i had an urge to go to AA (i still and will for ever
believe that was GOD talking to me) that was over 10 years ago. I do believe it is a disease,
i think i was alcoholic before i ever took the first drink, i still go to AA, not because i feel i need to
because i want to. I think people can quit without AA it is just so much easier with AA.
I have a friend that says once you put the plug in the jug, you no longer have a drinking problem
but a living problem. I have not had a drink in over 10 years and don't intend to test my self
i think my will power can handle it but i don't wake up wanting a drink or go to bed wanting one
so why test it. One sure thing i have learned is NO ONE QUITS UNTIL THEY ARE READY regardless
of what treatment This is just MY story, i can only speak for myself.
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.