Author Topic: Huntsman/Sidekick (Read 3286 times)

kody · « **on:** July 15, 2008, 07:57:42 PM »

Do the latest Huntsman barrels require aftermarket work to bring them to usable standards? Do they need both the Hubbard rod AND a different breech plug? How do the Huntsman and Sidekick models compare in overall performance? KODY

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2008, 06:17:27 AM »

The ramrod from Hubbard Outdoors is a definate improvement and I would recommend that. Apparently NEF has no interest in upgrading the rifle and from what I can see it is still the same as the older ones other than the breechplug thread has been reduced from the first ones. As far as replacing the breechplug the only option is the .25ACP conversion which is expensive and does limit blowback compared with the plastic carriers. As far as shooting the new BH209 powder many are not having much luck with the NEF rifles. You might consider looking at the CVA Optima series. I just bought the Optima Elite which can switch barrels with centerfire and shotgun and the quality of this particular CVA rifle is very good. It also will shoot the BH209 powder from what I can find. I have not shot mine yet as it is brand new to me. As far as comparing the Huntsman to the Sidekick they are for all practical purposes the same rifle and should be exactly the same in performance. I think the Huntsman has been dropped from the line.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2008, 06:50:02 AM »

The Sidekick is no longer available as a production rifle from H&R, but Cabela's still sells the Heritage version, whether they will continue to be available is another question, they have them on sale, dunno if it's a closeout tho. The Huntsman was discontined a couple years ago, but is still listed as an accessory barrel. The Sidekick/Heritage uses a shortened version of the SB1 frame, it can't be fitted with any other barrels and is a muzzleloader only, unlike late model Huntsmans which can be fitted with shotgun barrels.

Tim

Cabela's Heritage

PA-Joe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2008, 07:17:07 AM »

Mine does cloverleafs at 100 yds right out of the box using hornady sst sabots.

Busta · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2008, 04:22:27 PM »

Quote from: kody on July 15, 2008, 07:57:42 PM

Do the latest Huntsman barrels require aftermarket work to bring them to usable standards? Do they need both the Hubbard rod AND a different breech plug? How do the Huntsman and Sidekick models compare in overall performance? KODY

Kody,

The Huntsman barrels are very good shooters. The Hubbard Rod is very nice, but I had a couple jags made to fit my standard rods, and have never had a problem with them. I use a Knight Range Rod for loading and cleaning, I only use the standard rod to load a follow up shot that has never been required. Everything I have shot with the NEF only required one shot, several whitetails and a bull elk.

Custom Jag.

I have purchased the .25 ACP plug, and a one-of-a-kind Hubbard 209 plug. The .25 ACP plug is very nice for all powder EXCEPT Blackhorn 209, it will shoot saboted bullets with BH209 as long as you use Small Rifle MAGNUM Primers (CCI 450), but no joy with Hornady FPB's or conicals. The .25 ACP plug makes the rifle nearly blowback free. The Hubbard 209 plug makes mine BH209 compatable for saboted bullets, Hornady FPB's, and conicals.

From L-R: Standard NEF Plug, Standard NEF Plug w/my #11 conversion, Standard NEF 209 Plug w/carrier, .25 ACP Plug, Hubbard 209 Plug.

The Huntsman and Sidekick are virtually identical from a function standpoint. The differences are as Quick stated above, the Huntsman is a 4473 Firearm, the Sidekick is strictly a muzzleloader.

Huntsman on top, Sidekick on bottom.

A couple nice conical groups I shot with mine a couple weeks ago, PRICELESS!

TheSuper · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2008, 03:02:11 AM »

Busta; I guess I'm going to have to go with the .25 ACP conversion if I want to shoot BH209 out of my Sidekick ... how well did yours do with this setup and is there anything I need to be aware of before trying it ? Thanks

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2008, 08:07:27 AM »

Quote from: TheSuper on July 17, 2008, 03:02:11 AM

Busta; I guess I'm going to have to go with the .25 ACP conversion if I want to shoot BH209 out of my Sidekick ... how well did yours do with this setup and is there anything I need to be aware of before trying it ? Thanks

Super: You need to be aware that Busta is using a 209 breechplug for shooting BH209 that is not available and not possible to get any more. His was a one of a kind made for him and never will be duplicated. If you want to shoot BH209 you need to look at some other muzzleloader. If you are satisfied with everything except BH209 then the .25ACP conversion or the standard plastic carriers will work fine. The .25ACP just eliminates most of the blowback. It will not work with BH209 from what I can find out. I am pretty sure that this is correct but Busta can confirm.

kody · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2008, 10:11:19 AM »

WOW! Now THAT was a great set of responces! I got into NEFs just a little too late for the main reason I joined; to get an inline replacement for my 35 yr old cap and ball. It took me a while,reading all of the ads and info posts, to realize that I would have a problem getting a good SS Huntsman barrel. I ran across Heritages at Cabelas and now learned ,from Quick, where they fit in. In realizing Huntsman scarcity I started digging through all of the info on Huntsman performance and the tweaking necessary with them to maximize getting the right setup.I AM going to get one when ,I don't know, but I will. I feel I can manage the rod problem,mechanically not by only needing ONE shot. That excellant photo display of breech plug adaptations showed me a lot and the range report made my mouth water for what could be.Thanks to all of you who sent replies. KODY

kody · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2008, 11:02:59 AM »

Also, What is the availability of 5/8" & 7/8" breech -plugs for ignition experiments? KODY AGAIN

Busta · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2008, 11:58:16 AM »

Quote from: TheSuper on July 17, 2008, 03:02:11 AM

Busta; I guess I'm going to have to go with the .25 ACP conversion if I want to shoot BH209 out of my Sidekick ... how well did yours do with this setup and is there anything I need to be aware of before trying it ? Thanks

TheSuper,

With Blackhorn 209, I never achieved instant ignition (slight delay) with the Small Rifle Primers (CCI 400), however I have with the Small Rifle MAGNUM Primers (CCI 450) using saboted bullets. This was in 75 to 80 degree temperature though, don't know what it will do in the December Muzzleloading Season when temps are down around ZERO??? The MAGNUM Primers still would not launch the Hornady FPB's or Conicals reliably even in the mild temps, hang-fires and delayed fires.

If I had to bet, I would bet that even the Small Rifle MAGNUM Primers will not be reliable with the saboted bullets in below freezing weather. I think they are on the edge and therefore I would not rely on them for hunting. The game we persue, deserves much better than that.

I am currently working on another source for a carrierless 209 breech plug for the NEF's, and should have some type of answer by the middle of next week. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

TheSuper · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2008, 12:07:25 PM »

Keith; Thanks for the info ... what I was wondering about was how well the NEF shot using the .25 ACP plug with magnum small rifle primers and BH209 ? Too bad Ben can't make a suitable conversion at a price we can afford that will still allow him to make a buck too !! Busta said he might contact Cecil at PR Bullets to see if he can help ... don't know if he has as yet. Again,thanks

TheSuper · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2008, 12:12:16 PM »

Busta; Thanks for the reply ... good luck in your efforts to get a plug made ...my fingers ARE crossed !!

Buckhammer74 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2008, 06:08:16 PM »

Busta,

If your source comes through, will it include a 5/8 plug for the newer Huntsmen/Sidekicks?

I guess you and I are pretty lucky, we both have 1 and only plugs, yours being 7/8 and mine 5/8 (newer style) from Hubbards that will shoot BH209.

Yes I did finally get it to go bang. Like I said It hangfired off the get go, then I removed the set screw/2nd flashhole Ben put in mine, and it still hang fired. I then read your theory about using an o-ring. Whether I understood you correctly or not, I placed the smallest o-ring I could find around the primer to seal and better headspace it, and still no insta bang.

Well I ended up removing .5 mm off the top of the carrier which removed the slop from the inside of the carrier from the chamfer Ben put in. I then shimmed the carrier up .024" and drilled it out with a 1/8" bit and put the set screw/flashhole back in and presto instant bang!

petemi · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2008, 11:59:48 PM »

I ordered a stainless huntsman barrel from the factory about a year ago, put it on an SB-1 frame and a pallet wood stock. I'm shooting 470 gr. T/C Maxis with two tripple 7 50 gr. pellets and the 209 primer carrier. I have never had a hangfire or a missfire with this load. It shoots excellent groups at 100 yards, and I bang-flopped a nice buck with it last December at about 60 yards. Bullet entered the front chest, exited the right ham and flipped him completely over backward dead on the spot. The bottom line is you have to keep it CLEAN.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2008, 05:25:43 AM »

Kody get yourself one of the NEF's before they are gone either from Cabela's or if the bbl's are still availible from H&R. One thing you got to remember with all this breech plug bussiness is Busta has many years of knowledge working with the Huntsman's so you can pick his brain while you shoot yours... out of the factory they won't shoot the BH209 powder but there are many others out there that work very well. I shoot Shockey's Gold and have shot other's will acceptable preformance. I own a Hubbard's rod but only because I got a deal on it and really have no need for it. The factory ones are just fine as long as you get a good quality range rod they also look much nicer on the gun. Busta has tons of loads with lot's of bullets and many powders and has been very gracious to help other's get a good start with the NEF"s. Kurt

TheSuper · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2008, 09:37:40 AM »

Buck; Nice to see you've got your Hubbard plug working !! ... like you I also have a 5/8 plug in my new Sidekick so I'm also hoping Busta's efforts will pay off !!!

TheSuper · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:53:45 PM »

I have a new Sidekick ... can someone tell me what the nominal barrel I.D. should be ? ... I don't have the proper mic to measure it with. Just in the process of trying to find the bullet/sabot/load combo that it prefers. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanx,Wayne

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:57:14 PM »

You can slug the bore while the breech plug out just like you would a centerfire barrel, then measure the slug with a caliper, see Bore Slugging and Chamber Casting in the FAQs.

Tim

Busta · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2008, 05:32:28 PM »

Quote from: TheSuper on July 27, 2008, 01:53:45 PM

I have a new Sidekick ... can someone tell me what the nominal barrel I.D. should be ? ... I don't have the proper mic to measure it with. Just in the process of trying to find the bullet/sabot/load combo that it prefers. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanx,Wayne

TheSuper,

I have a Huntsman and a Sidekick, the Owners Manual says nominal bore diameter is .501" land to land and .510" groove to groove. However both of mine slug out to .502" exactly. My Huntsman is the least picky muzzleloader I own, so just about everything shoots well in it. What would you like to shoot? Every barrel is an individual, so you will still need to shoot to know for sure what yours likes. Anything in the 250-300 grain range for saboted bullets and 430-460 grain range for conicals. 777 powder from 80 to 100 grains works well in mne.

My barrels are 2003 and 2004, the newer barrels may be different and measure different. Best thing is to slug your bore as Tim suggested.

TheSuper · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2008, 05:08:33 AM »

Busta/Tim; Thanks for the tips ... I'll go to the FAQ's to make sure I get it right. I'm leaning toward 300 XTP's and SST's since I have lots of them on hand (my Omega loves 'em both) !! Thanks,again, Wayne

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2008, 08:34:19 AM »

Quote from: petemi on July 19, 2008, 11:59:48 PM

I ordered a stainless huntsman barrel from the factory about a year ago, put it on an SB-1 frame and a pallet wood stock. I'm shooting 470 gr. T/C Maxis with two tripple 7 50 gr. pellets and the 209 primer carrier. I have never had a hangfire or a missfire with this load. It shoots excellent groups at 100 yards, and I bang-flopped a nice buck with it last December at about 60 yards. Bullet entered the front chest, exited the right ham and flipped him completely over backward dead on the spot. The bottom line is you have to keep it CLEAN.

You need to understand that all this talk about hangfires is relative to the new Blackhorn 209 powder and not any of the other substitutes. Almost everything other than the BH209 will fire with even a #11 percussion cap and any .25ACP or the 209 shotgun primers will give instant ignition in the Sidekick or Huntsman with stock breechplug and carriers or the .25ACP conversion. Tripple Seven might be the only one that would require at least a 209 shotgun primer (#11 percussion cap might not light it off) but that does not apply to the Huntsman or Sidekick as they do not use a #11 nipple anyway.

kody · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2008, 09:13:05 AM »

Are 7/8" breechplugs available to fabricate any optional ignition sources,#11 nipples, .25 ACP holders or the 209 primer holder type as done by Hubbard? A while back I came across a post referring to spare breechplug wrenches. Someone needed one and another fellow said he had one[some]. How readily are 7/8" wrenches available? KODY