Author Topic: Range Report!!  (Read 2032 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Range Report!!
« on: July 30, 2008, 02:34:10 PM »
Finally made it to the range this morning, nice day, not too hot, little wind, and not too many shooters so it was very pleasant!!  :) Took 6 rifles and a handgun, 30-30AI, 357Mag, 44Mag, 38-55 Target, SS 45-70 Ultra, 338 WinMagTikka T3 Lite and the Kel-Tc PF9, all groups shot at 100yds except the PF-9 which was shot at 7yds on the pistol range.

Got to shoot all of them, but the big disappointment was the SS 45-70, it has a combination of too much headspace, the rim cut is too deep at .075" as best I can measure it, I think the SAAMI spec is .070", and/or the firing pin is too short. 405gr Rem factory ammo shot most of the time, but had to drop the hammer a couple times on two of them,  and the 300gr Win and 350gr PMC wouldn't fire at all. I got two of my 300gr TSX handloads to go after a couple hammer falls, velocity of those two was 2340 and 2342fps,  didn't take a pic of them, they weren't grouped at all, but that was my start load, that's not surprising with the TSX, they usually have to be pushed hard. The 405gr Rems didn't shoot too bad considering they were the first rounds out of the gun after 2 shots at 25yds to get on paper, they grouped in 2", considering the headspace, that's not too surprising either. Rather than send it back, for now I think I'll try to build up the front side of the extractor with epoxy to hold the rim flush with the chamber face, if that doesn't work, then it's off to H&R. :-\

UPDATE 8/13/2008: It shoots great!! http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,149618.msg1098623394.html#msg1098623394



The 30-30AI got some fireforming loads run thru it, 150gr Hornady Interlocks w/28.5gr IMR 3031 ran about 2040fps, but grouped nicely, shot the last 6 rounds onto one target. I also shot some 150gr Rem factory loads thru it, they didn't shoot to bad, but velocity was about 100fps slower than they do in my 30-30 barrel. and the accuracy wasn't as good.




The 38-55 Target(scoped w/Weaver K15 for my old eyes) shot excellent, I was shooting some .379" 220gr JSPs that I got from Boer Bullets, I loaded them using 375 Win data from the Lyman 48th in Starline long brass, the start load of 36.5gr of RL7 shot the best at 2251fps, 39gr pushed them to 2385fps, but accuracy wasn't quite as good, I went one grain higher in the data since the COL is longer, I could go another .5gr-1gr or so I think, but there's probably not really much to be gained.




The 44mag shot the 225gr FTX and 240gr XTP respectably with the FTX a tad better, velocity was 1763fps for the FTX and 1758fps for the XTP. The 357Mag didn't like the 140gr FTX at all, it stayed on the paper, but that's about it!! The 44mag would do better with a scope, it's got a WGRS rear and Firesight front, my old eyes don't do hard sights well, but I was happy with the results. The 357 has a 2x scout scope on it, it could do better too, but I wouldn't expect much with that ammo.




The Tikka T-3 338 Win Mag did exceptional too considering that's all it's been shot, 1 shot at 25yds to get on paper, no Lead Sled there too, BTW!! Then on to the 100yd range, shots 2-3-4 are the upper group, then I let it cool and dropped the elevation  3" and shot the lower group, shooting the $28 a box 225gr Remington Corelokt, I have handloads for it, but that's for another time.



I don't shoot pistol much, used to shoot a flintlock pistol at blackpowder rendezvous, but haven't since '98, bought a Kel-Tec PF9 last fall, shot it while waiting for barrels to cool. I shot this 14 shot group with 2 different loads, American Eagle and Remington green box, the first three rounds went high, two just cutting the paper, then I got used to the 2 breath trigger, and continued shooting the rest into a group that's ~3¼"x2" at 7yds, I was real happy since many say the PF9 is hard to just keep it on the paper!! ;D

Tim











"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Saloon slug

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
  • Gender: Male
  • Eastern NC
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »
Darn good shooting ;D.
 Not suprised that factory ammo shoots slower in the A.I. I imagine a good bit of pressure is spent bumping the brass up to the chamber before the bullet gets to far up bore.

From the halls of Montezuma

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 02:47:36 PM »
That's kinda what I figured, kinda like shooting a reduced load!! ;D

Thx,

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Troyboy

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (41)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
  • Work more talk less
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 03:32:48 PM »
Nice shooting wish i could have been there!
.204 .22lr .22wm .25acp .223 5.56 .243 .25-06 6.5x55  .308  .300wbymag  7.5x54  7.62x25 7.62x39  338-06  9x19 .38spl  9x18 .45acp . 45-70 .500s&w 12rfl 12smb 20smb  .45lc 410smb .22hornet .280AI    Ask not what your country can do for you BUT what can YOU do for your country

Offline Slufoot

  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1004
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 03:37:03 PM »
Tim thanks for the report, sounds like you had a fun day. I hate to hear about the headspace trouble with your 45-70.
Other than the 357 all of your groups are very repectable. The 30-30AI shows alot of potential from the fire form loads, it's already shooting great but I expect it will do better when you load the fire formed brass.
You mentioned that "hard sights" didn't work well for your eyes, after seeing the group with the 225 ftx's I find that hard to believe. That is a great group for peep sights at 100 yards in my book.
Thanks for the range report and also for sharing the targets with us.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 04:57:04 PM »
Thanks, I just think that a scope on the 44mag could make those groups considerably smaller, it doesn't take much to open the group up when the aiming device isn't that precise due to old eyes. The Firesight is a great hunting sight, but it lacks when shooting paper, but it will do great on a deer!!  ;) I'll have to put a scope on it for the next trip just to see how well it does. 8)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline NM Shooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 06:17:21 PM »
My Kel-Tec PF9 resides in a Comp-Tac inside-the-waistband Kydex holster when I take my dogs for walks. I have a CCI birdshot round in the barrel (rattlesnake medicine) and 124 grain hollow points for larger "vermin" in the magazine. Believe it or not, I can hit paper plate-sized rocks with it from 30 yds. at the local shooting range if I do my part. At 7 yds, it will put 8 rounds into the size of a golf ball. Needless to say, I am VERY pleased with it!

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 06:55:53 PM »
I don't carry the PF9 except during hunting season, it's light and I don't even notice it, I would just like a little more fire power than a single shooter in case I call in a cougar or bear when turkey hunting or run on to someone's drug operation while hunting.  :o

I got a handle on the misfire problem, I was able to put a temporary shim behind the extractor to get 100% ignition on the several primed cases I ran thru it, the extractor holds the rim flush with the barrel face. Firing pin projection is .045", not ideal, but better than the .038" on the 38-55 Target that shot just fine.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline dpe.ahoy

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3363
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 01:22:46 AM »
Got some right nice groups Tim.  That 30-30AI looks like it's gonna be a shooter for you.  What velocity are you looking for and where are you finding specs for loading the AI?  DP.
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline bilmac

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 01:48:43 AM »
Quick

I had a marlin 30-30 that misfired a lot. I startad loading it with large pistol mag primers, and I don't remember another misfire. Don't believe it hurt accuracy. I wouldn't do it with high pressure cartridges, but I saw nothing unusual about the fired primers at 30-30 pressures.

Offline stimpylu32

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6062
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 03:51:53 AM »
Tim

Thanks for the report , looks like more than one well be keepers , The 30/30 AI did the same thing my 224 & 25/06 did when fireforming the cases , now try that same loads now that the cases are formed and see if the groups match , if it does like mine the groups will be bigger and you will need to bump the powder charge up . Don't ask me why but it happened  ???

The 357 may need a bit of powder tweeking or a heavier bullet but its a good start , got to get me one of those yet  ;)

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 04:56:23 AM »
DP, I'm kinda on my own for load data, QuickLoad gives me some starting places, the only data I've found so far is at Handloads and Reloadbench, but I'm using 375Win cases which has less case capacity, so their loads won't fit in the case. I'll have to adjust the water capacity entry in QL to that of the fireformed cases, but so far IMR3031 looks the best, but that may change.

Stimpy, the 140gr FTX is a factory round, just wanted to see how they did since they were available locally. I'll be handloading some 360DW ammo for the next trip, likely with the 180gr SSP. I also have those funny looking cast bullets to shoot in it and the 44mag.

Bilmac, pin impacts were very light, so changing primers likely wouldn't help, I think I'll also remove a little off the hammer face to align it with the hammer seat as Fred did on his Ultras, that will give it about  .010" deeper strike.

Thanks fellas,

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline lonewolf5348

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1393
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 06:29:03 AM »
I was shooting some .379" 220gr JSPs that I got from Boer Bullets
Tim: do you have a link oe url for the above boolets

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 06:56:58 AM »
No website that I know of, check your PMs.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline BillinOregon

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 222
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 09:56:44 AM »
Tim: Thanks for the range report. I'm tickled to see those .38-55 groups. You're getting a lot more velocity than I have with conservative 3031 loads. I'll have to try some RL 7.
Bill

Offline dw06

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1074
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 09:57:32 AM »
Tim, keep us updated on the 30-30 ai.The 38-55 is looking good.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline Doublebass73

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4579
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 01:06:59 PM »
Thanks for the report Quick! Let us know how the .360 Dan Wesson loads work out in the .357.
What's your best group to date with your .357?

I just ordered a Leupold 2x7x33 for my .357 and plan on getting some .357 reloading equipment
if that combination works well.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 02:24:37 PM »
That's the only ammo that's been shot in it, hasn't been shot before,  bought it new as an accessory barrel last summer.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 09:03:59 PM »
Very nice report Tim, its hard to keep track of that many calibers.

Where'd you get the Boer bullets from, I tried to locate him some time back but no luck.  That's a lot of RL7 behind that bullet.  Does the Lymn manual show using 38-55 brass?
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2008, 04:40:53 AM »
The Lyman data is for the 375Win in that brass, 38-55 brass has more capacity so pressures would be less given the same powder charge, COL is longer also. Check your PMs on Boer Bullets.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,148046.msg1098611652.html#msg1098611652
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tykempster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 798
  • I enjoy long range shooting and big guns.
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2008, 04:44:04 AM »
How's the 338 recoil compared to a 45-70 with hot loads, or your 45-120 black powder loads?

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2008, 05:00:06 AM »
My butt-O-meter says the 338Win is lighter on recoil compared to 300gr 45-70 loads at 2425fps and 525gr 45-120 at 1800fps, but it's close to the 45-70, about 15lbs lighter than the 45-120 load according to the calculator link.

Tim

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline BillinOregon

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 222
Re: Range Report!!
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 05:52:46 AM »
Tim: I'll admit the least pleasant recoil I have dealt with (shotguns and turkey loads excepted), was that dished out by a light Model 70 with synthetic stock in .338. My No. 1 in .458 Lott generates much bigger numbers, but with a much less snappy dynamic that I somehow find easier to take -- in small doses!