Author Topic: Newbie Reloading mistake, can I fix it? (Read 1028 times)

DoubleA · « **on:** July 22, 2003, 07:28:24 AM »

Yes I'm new to reloading.
I'm reloading 44 mag for pistol and the first time I ran all my once fired brass (50) through the dies, I missed a message in the instructions about a spacer for my RCBS 3 set dies. It says that I was suppose to use the space when reloading 44mag. I completed 12 shells and the were bulged to the point as not to fit in the cyclinder. Looks like I bulged them all a little. I tried to resize them all again, and hopefully start over with the spacer this time for the dies (except the sizer), but it doesn't seem to be working.

Can I fix these cases or should I just toss them???

THanks,
DoubleA

Questor · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2003, 09:35:53 AM »

If you've got loaded shells, don't run them through the press for any reason except to put a tighter crimp on the bullet. It's dangerous. Chalk this one up to experience and try again.

If the shells are not loaded and it's just the brass, go ahead and re-size them. It sounds like you tried this and it failed. What's the problem? I don't see why it shouldn't work unless the cases are so deformed that you can't size them. This would have to be a pretty bad deformation.

Graycg · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2003, 10:46:03 AM »

I think we need some more info here. The spacers under dies are used when you use the same dies for loading Magnums and specials and don't want to adjust the dies for each. If you aren't going to load specials anytime soon, just adjust the dies for Magnum rounds and don't use the spacer.
Now you talk about the cases being bulged...does that mean when you expanded the case mouths to accept the bullet bases that you over did it and now have little tuba looking items?
Or do you mean that the cases are bulged down the case just forward of the rim?
If the cases are overbelled, they may or may not fit back into your resizing die; if they do resize them and start all over, if not...trash them.
If the bulges are just above the rim, I think there is something else wrong and still don't have enough info to tell you the problem.
One last item, are you using carbide dies diess or steel dies? If you are using steel dies and not properly lubricating the shells, you could be crushing and bulging the cases because they can't properly enter the die due to lack of lubrication.

Hope this helps a little. A digital photo of a bulged case might help us to help you.

regards,
Graycg

BruceP · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2003, 11:50:53 AM »

If the bulge is not at the case mouth but further down the case it may be that the seating/crimp die is screwed down too far causing it to over crimp the case. Once you pass the point of a good heavy crimp then pushing the case any further into the die just sets the brass back It has to go somewhere and usually that will be to bulge the case out between the base of the bullet and the solid case head.
BruceP

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2003, 01:27:23 PM »

I have done it before over crimping. If you can pull the bullets with a kenetic bullet puller, a usefull tool to have around to erase mistakes, you can resize and probably reuse the primed cases. and bullets.

Tom W. · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2003, 04:01:04 PM »

I'll admit to doing the same (almost) with my .45Colt dies. I got a small bulge just below the base of the bullet, not at the base. I had misadjusted the seating die a bit.
:oops:

DoubleA · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2003, 06:58:10 AM »

Thanks for all the replies. I won't be reloading any 44 special rounds, so thanks for the info about the set the die for mags and forget the spacer. I got the tuba looking brass Graycg. I guess I oversized them. I am using Carbide dies, and I out of the 50 that I messed up, I only primed and actually loaded about 12 of them. I tried to resize (again) the remainder of the 50, but there was still a bulge in them. Don't worry all, I won't try to do anything with the loaded shells in the dies.. (thanks though), but I am buying a Bullet Puller today to try to save some resources.

Here's what I see..
1. With the sized but unloaded and unprimed cases, a bulge about 1/4 up from the rim..
2. The loaded cases.. Opps 2 bulges... one same as unloaded and then one just below where the seated round bottom would be if I could see through the case...

I'm a newbie, and don't mind making mistakes.. I chalk it up to learning..
Just curious if I can reuse this brass and straighten them out, If I can't or if I am concerned about safety NO BIG deal, I can get more brass......

1. Once used Winchester Brass, cleaned
2. 300 grain XTP's

Thanks Again all..
DoubleA

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2003, 07:42:48 AM »

Double A,

Now I know what you are talking about. That lower one results from haveing the carbide sizer too far down the case. You only need to resize it the length that the bullet will be held by the case (like neck sizing on a bottleneck case), as long as the fired cases will fit into your chamber(s). That lower one will expand out on firing and you can just adjust your sizing die after fire forming those cases.

The second one is from the seated bullet expanding the sized case.

If you adjust your sizing die so that it only sized the part that the bullet will enter, then your problem will be fixed.

Graycg · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2003, 11:55:20 AM »

Hey don't sweat the small stuff, always happy to have a new reloader on the block. I've made plenty of stuff that looks like what you are describing...and lots worse!!! I've pulled some real boners, especially when trying new ideas...some good, some really bad.
I hope all goes well for you and the one thing I can always recommend to a new reloader is: You can never have enough reloading manuals!!! One is not enough, I recommend you collect them from lots of different makers of bullets, powder and I think the standard to judge them all by is Lyman's as they don't sell powder or jacketed bullets, they will just push lead bullets at you, and that is ok with me.

regards,
Graycg

bigchast1 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2003, 12:24:43 PM »

Well heck yeah!!! I am also knew to the hand loading game and the best investment other than my prees is a BULLET PULLER. Just put the "messed up" round in and whack it on the table, it will pull the bullet from the case by way of unearthly forces. It is really science but unearthly sounds a lots more mystical.

DoubleA · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:24:22 AM »

Hello all,
Thanks a lot for this help here. Looks like I was flaring the mouths WAY to much and that was the root of all my problems. I am confident now of the loads that I have achieved and HAVE LEARNED a LOT. Still lots to learn.. Can't wait to shoot these. Wish I had more brass to load some more.. Hope a lot of this learning transfers over to when I start reloading some Rifle Shells..

One last question???

I have a few of my loaded rounds that are a little snug in the cyclinder. I am able to get them into and out of the cyclinder, but they are a little snug. Should I have any concerns about shooting these?? They have no signs of bulge and are identical to the rest, just a little snug??

THANKS,
DoubleA

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:35:52 AM »

DoubleA,

Are you loading cast or jacketed bullets in that 44 Mag.? Do the bullets look like they are coming straight out of the case or at any kind of slight angle?

Can you tell where they are binding, are they binding only in one chamber of the cylinder or do the same rounds that bind behave the same way in all of the chambers?

DoubleA · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2003, 05:03:48 PM »

Mr. Krupinski,
I am loading jacketed 240 grain XTP's. They are all straight as can be. They are a little snug in every cyclinder. I think the reason they are a little snug is because they look like the were seated a high on the crimp line, i.e. most (but not all) of the crimp line is below the mouth of the case. On the shells that I completed towards the end that function properly, I adjusted the seating die so that the mouth of the shell was almost in the middle of the crimp line if that is possible. Now I am curious if the shells that are a little snug would cause any problems in my redhawks? They were loaded with the starting load of H110 from the SPEER reloading manual, with CCI 350 primers.

If you think there is some concern, I will just use the bullet puller (my new best friend) and reload them...
Thanks,
DoubleA

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2003, 07:26:18 PM »

DoubleA,

I think with the starting load you should be just fine. I don't think you could crimp it too tight to make any difference from a safety standpoint with that revolver. I think you may have just rolled that crimp out a little causing the binding.

There may be a little varriation in velocity from the other's but you should be able to empty them in the revolver just fine if you can get them in the chamber.

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2003, 10:21:05 PM »

DoubleA,
TK has given you good advice. May I add a few pointers?

When flareing the mouths of the cases, only flare them enough to allow the bullet to sit on the case as you raise them to your die. I use the "round nose" seater plug for all bullets. Place a cotton ball in your bullet puller to cushion the bullet. Cut a piece of 2x6 to pound on....it will save your table top.

Often, bulges are caused by crimping the bullet before it is fully seated (improper die set-up). It is best to seat all of your bullets and then crimp them in another operation. This saves you a lot of heartache and gives you better quality control.

DoubleA · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2003, 04:15:08 AM »

Great now you went and did it. You made me think of another question. LOL. Now when you are talking about Crimping in a seperate step from seating what is that about? I have a Seating die (carbide) that I thought was crimping in the same step as the seating? I have heard of people talking about 'roll crimping'.

1. What are the different kinds of crimping?
2. What are the min crimp needed?
3. What are the gains for more crimp, and are there any potential hazards to more crimp besides my bullet puller dieing ? LOL

Thanks for all the advice all. I Like getting all this free advice..
DoubleA

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2003, 04:56:01 AM »

DoubleA,

Your die body controls the amount of crimp you apply. Your seater plug stem controls the depth of bullet seating. They operate independently of each other 'till they a locked together with the stop-nut on your seater stem. You did read the directions....didn't you? :grin:

Back your die body out till it no longer crimps. Find this point with an empty round of brass. Then adjust your seater plug by seating a bullet until you reach the correct seating depth. N ow you are ready to load. Seat all your bullets (of the same kind) with this setting.

Once your bullets are seated, back the seater plug w-a-a-a-y out and adjust your crimp.

1. There are two kinds of crimp....roll crimp and taper crimp. A roll crimp is used for most revolver rounds and a taper crimp for mist auto rounds.

2. Magnum rounds using a slower powder require a firmer crimp in order for the powder to burn correctly. Yes, you can over-crimp....look at a factory round or check your manual.

3. See above. The only thing likely to die in your bullet puller is the rubber O-rings. They will usually last 5 years. Buy more at the hardware, plumbing or automotive store......about two cents apiece.

Yell if you need more help.