False advertising of "Confederate Armstrong Cannons"

[cannonmn]

More info on the false "Confederate Armstrongs:"

Checking some detailed info I have, the group of cannons imported from Nepal ca. 2003 included eight rifled bronze mountain guns which were identical or nearly identical to the two shown in the online ad.  I am certain that the two shown in the ad are two from that group of eight.  These guns all have a very distinctive breech profile you can see in the pix.  One of the guns in the row of those 8 had the Nepalese royal coat of arms engraved on the breech.

[Double D]

John, aren't you glad you posted details instead of a just a link!

[cannonmn]

This board does seem to be a lot more active than the NSSA one, as far as active participation.  There are a lot of readers on the NSSA board, but they don't tend to make comments, interestingly enough.  I think there, the interests are more specifically Civil War.

[Cannoneer]

Adrian,
After reading these posts the first names that came to mind were Bill Curtis and yours; if anyone has access to the literature on William Armstrong's history of cannon manufacturing it might be one of you two. Were Armstrong's ordnance companies ever involved with the casting of any bronze cannon or did they only produce wrought iron and steel ordnance?

[A.Roads]

Hi Boom J, a very interesting question - unfortunately I don't have anything with a history of Armstrong's gun manufacturing output so that is a difficult one for me to answer with certainty, but if you post it on the researchpress.co.uk forum I am sure that Bill Curtis will respond.  The references I have are more in regard to Armstrong's designs, patterns, manufacture, etc & relate to patterns adopted by the British Gov't - he didn't supply bronze guns to them as far as I am aware. Sir William Armstrong was a leading engineer in many areas other than ordnance & I find it difficult to imagine him casting bronze ordnance, he was seeking a modern solution, bronze had been around for centuries & its limitations were well known. If he wanted to experiment with rifled bronze guns then I believe that he would have rifled existing guns - as indeed was done by others. You could also post this query on the Palmerston Forts Society forum, there is a font of knowledge there. Adrian.

[Cat Whisperer]

PUBLISH IT!   

[cannonmn]

If anyone still has any doubts that the "Confederate Armstrong Cannon" pictured above is actually one of the imported Nepalese cannons, look at these photos of the Nepalese cannons and judge for yourself.   If you have a way to zoom in on the darker cannon in the middle of the first photo, you can see the Nepalese royal coat of arms engraved on the breech.  I suspect this one is an un-converted smoothbore and that's why it retains the coat-of-arms, which was removed during the rifling conversion.  But I'm not sure of that, can't seem to find a picture taken from the muzzle end.  These photos were taken in 2004 not long after the Nepalese cannons showed up in this country.  Nor am I sure that the rifled guns are converted smoothbores, the data is not at my fingertips at the moment and this needs further research, if anyone cares that is.  Notice how the one to the right of the coat-of-arms gun has a quadrant flat machined into the top of the barrel, and both a front and rear sight.  The rear sight holder appears identical to those found on imported Afghan steel rifled mountain guns, so perhaps there's a connection back when.

[dominick]

I built a few carriages for some of these barrels  and if I remember correctly there were approximately 140 barrels of various sizes imported from Nepal.

[cannonmn]

Dom, just wondering if you ran into or heard about any of these Nepalese tubes being represented as English or American-made?

[Terry C.]

If you have a way to zoom in on the darker cannon in the middle of the first photo, you can see the Nepalese royal coat of arms engraved on the breech.

The forum software has greatly reduced the size of the photo. Opening the link in a separate window will allow it to display at its original dimensions.

Click here!


I couldn't help but notice the indention on the barrel with the front sight post. Do you know its purpose?

[dominick]

Dom, just wondering if you ran into or heard about any of these Nepalese tubes being represented as English or American-made?

To answer your question, No.  Was Nepal a British colony in the early 19th century?  I can see someone thinking they were British because of that reason, even though they are of Nepalese manufacture.  The 6 pounder barrel That I built a carriage for has what appears to be a royal crest on the breech.  I made an impression of it.  It's written in the Nepalese language and I have not had it translated yet. 

[dan610324]

ooooooooooooooohhhh

who found this goldmine in nepal

[intoodeep]

ooooooooooooooohhhh

who found this goldmine in nepal

Below is a link to a brief trailer video with that info. You can find more from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffzjoj45Gzc&feature=related

[Cannoneer]

Thanks Adrian, I couldn't successfully complete the registration on the researchpress.co.uk forum; I'm waiting on a response from their webmaster to find out what the problem is. Palmerston Forts Society does have some information on Armstrong's cannons; there is a list of British service artillery of the Victorian period. There are two bronze R.M.L. pieces listed and they're not conversions.
7 PDR bronze Mark I (Land Service) introduced 1865 - sent to Bhutan.
7 PDR bronze Mark II (Naval Service) named the "Abyssinian Gun".
At the beginning of this list it's stated that, "N.B. this list does not include non-service issue artillery i.e. that manufactured and sold privately by Armstrong". After the British government relaxed (in the early 1860's) the restrictions in their agreement with Armstrong, which at one time prohibited him from selling artillery to any country but England; I think it might be reasonable to assume that at this time he may have manufactured other bronze rifled muzzle loaders for sale to foreign governments, he certainly took advantage of this opportunity to sell steel and wrought iron artillery to a divided America.

[KABAR2]

I was able to enlarge the photo a bit only the one next to the one with the flat
over the trunnions has a crest. The rest seem to be unmarked.

[cannonmn]

I couldn't help but notice the indention on the barrel with the front sight post. Do you know its purpose?

It is what I call a quadrant flat or seat.  On a cylindrical barrel it is hard to put a quadrant on the barrel accurately and repeatably.  The flat seat solves that problem, you just set the quadrant on the same spot every time and you will get an accurate reading of quadrant elevation.  I generally only see them on breechloading guns but here's an exception.