Author Topic: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today  (Read 924 times)

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Offline thxmrgarand

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Posted below is an article from the Anchorage Daily News today.  Several years ago the federal government took management of fish and game on federal land (roughly 75% of Alaska) away from the state.  The state had done a good job of managing fish and game since statehood (just as the state likely manages all fish and game in your state).  The reason for the takeover is that the State of Alaska Constitution clearly guaranties that fish and game belong to all the people.  The federal government has no problem putting some Americans ahead of other Americans (although on the NBC Sunday morning program 2 days ago, Sen McCain told George S... that he is against affirmative action so perhaps we could see the tide turn).  At any rate, this article portrays a recent incident that all long-time Alaskans know; hunting in rural Alaska is unregulated and the wine-drinking PC feds at best have bought into the noble Native myth (and at worst they just don't like the idea of white guys and gals hunting and fishing - guess they want us to play golf).  I have at least moderate confidence that this current Alaska governor will try to prosecute these perpetrators and if the feds interfere we may see some real fun. Thanks for your time.



Caribou slaughter leaves calves stranded

Meat from at least 60 of 120 carcasses wasted by village hunters

By JAMES HALPIN
jhalpin@adn.com

Published: July 29th, 2008 12:02 AM
Last Modified: July 29th, 2008 01:37 AM

Hunters from the villages of Point Hope and Kivalina are suspected of massacring more than 100 caribou and leaving at least half of them to rot on the tundra earlier this month, according to Alaska Wildlife Troopers.
Click to enlarge


Investigators arriving at the scene found a total of 120 carcasses scattered along a 40-mile trail about 25 miles east of Point Hope, prompting them to call the killings "by far the worst case of blatant waste" they have ever seen, according to a trooper spokesperson.

The meat from at least 60 animals had been either partially wasted or not even touched, troopers said. Most still had their developing antlers intact. Calves were left stranded, some still trying to suckle milk from the decomposing cows two weeks after the slaughter.

Troopers have so far identified five suspects and think there could be many more, but the investigation has been stymied by an apparent lack of cooperation from village officials, troopers spokeswoman Beth Ipsen said.

"In a community that size, it's hard to not know what's going on, but they refused to come forward with that information," Ipsen said. "We wish we had more cooperation from the community, and it's disappointing."

At a meeting between troopers and elders last week, investigators showed elders photos of the bulls, cows and cows with calves that had been left to waste as they explained why they were there and appealed for cooperation, Ipsen said.

"Even the elders were pretty stunned by this much waste," she said. "When we had a community meeting and showed them the photos, the room went silent."

But when investigators returned Sunday evening, no names had surfaced. All of the suspects have been identified because of troopers' police work, she said. The suspects, who range in age from 17 to 25, have not yet been charged because the cases were being forwarded to the district attorney's office for review.

Officials in Point Hope could not be reached for comment Monday. Last week, as news of the slaughter began to leak out, Point Hope Mayor Steve Oomittuk said in an interview that the town would not tolerate the killings and that it was contrary to the villagers' subsistence lifestyle. He said the town was committed to finding out who was responsible.


Point Hope is an Inupiat Eskimo village of 700 people 330 miles southwest of Barrow, an area considered one of the longest continuously occupied in the state.

Like other area Bush communities, the village relies heavily on the 377,000-strong Western Arctic Caribou Herd, which passed through an area about 25 miles to its east at the beginning of the month, according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

The killings took place July 4-8 -- during the open hunting season when residents are allowed five caribou per day, Ipsen said.

Troopers in Kotzebue didn't get the report of the mass killings until July 16, and three investigators arrived in the village three days later to begin combing the area by helicopter and all-terrain vehicle, she said. It was clear that multiple hunting parties were involved and they were from the area -- there is no indication air taxis or other transporters were in the field at the time, she said.

In the end, investigators were able to confirm at least 60 of the 120 caribou had been wasted.

"There could have been more," Ipsen said. "The other ones were so heavily scavenged and eaten that we couldn't tell."

A motive for the killings remains unclear.

Troopers are asking for the public's help in identifying suspects. Troopers in Kotzebue can be reached at 1-907-442-3222. Anonymous tips can be called in to the Alaska Wildlife Safeguard hotline at 1-800-478-3377.

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 05:21:08 AM »
The village will put pressure on the guilty /provided/ the state does not unite the village against the outsiders.

For the state to punish the guilty would also punish the village and the families of the guilty, there is very little slack up there to allow the dependents to survive without the men. It's not at all like the lower 48.

Offline thxmrgarand

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 06:26:48 AM »
You may have more experience in village Alaska than I have, and from my interpretation of your reply I surmised you have a different perspective.  In the 35 years since I moved to Alaska I have worked throughout rural Alaska.  My view is that while many village people find work and then travel back to the villages as their schedules permit, subsistence hunting and fishing as portrayed by government (and forced upon us by Washington, DC) is a myth.  Village residents live predominantly on transfer payments and the packaged foods those transfer payments can buy.  The state provides a school, school teachers and transfer payments.  The feds provide free health care and more transfer payments.  I would guess that what bureaucrats term subsistence hunting and fishing would be called poaching by 99% of the people who frequent Graybeard Outdoors, and I would agree with them.  Unregulated spring hunting of waterfowl with rifles and with lead shot, shooting all ages of polar bears and other marine mammals without limits or management, and chasing down deer, moose and caribou with skiffs and snowmobiles are some of the specific examples regularly witnessed and reported by Alaska citizens.   In my opinion, law doesn't work at all when there is one law for me and a different law for you, especially when the difference is based upon race.  A couple years ago a village barricaded a teacher in his home and set it on fire, then all the teachers left the village and the school shut down for at least a year.  I don't believe anyone was prosecuted.  I believe that village may have been one of the two in this newspaper article.  I do not believe there is any evidence whatsoever that law can be left to some sort of village process.  Government transfer payments will continue even if these poachers are prosecuted, convicted and sent to jail (so no one need worry about the village).  Thanks for the reply.   

Offline deltecs

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 09:53:22 AM »
The village will put pressure on the guilty /provided/ the state does not unite the village against the outsiders.

For the state to punish the guilty would also punish the village and the families of the guilty, there is very little slack up there to allow the dependents to survive without the men. It's not at all like the lower 48.

I totally disagree with this statement.  The guilty need punished as an example that wanton waste and subsistance lifestyle do not go hand in hand.  In addition, with a population of 700, a few guilty men if prosecuted and punished, would not severly impact the economy or subsistance needs.  This is a typical case of the younger generation not being taught respect for their heritage, family, and lifestyle.  The suspects ages range between 17-25, which is plenty old enough to know better.  This gives all Alaskans a black eye and deserves punishment.  If a non Native did this deed and caught, he would be charged with a felony and lose all hunting rights.  Natives are subject to the same laws and deserve the same punishment, if convicted.  I live in a remote area of Alaska and have those subsistance hunting rights, just as the Natives do with the exception of marine mammals harvest.  I'm disgusted reading of this unwanton slaughter and there is no excuse for the perpetrators.   
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline thxmrgarand

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 11:33:13 AM »
I agree with deltecs.  Justice should be colorblind.  I will add that Alaska attempts at tribal justice (as a replacement for the justice system in place for the rest of us) have been and continue to be a terrible experiment, and so far as I can determine it's been the same way in the Lower 48.  A few years ago two Native fellows from a southern Alaska town attacked, robbed and maimed for life a pizza delivery man in the State of Washington.  The judge bought into tribal justice, and a tribal court was formed to sentence the attackers to live on a remote island in southern Alaska.  The sentenced felons were sneaking into town within a few weeks.  The tribe said they would pay for the delivery fellow's medical bills but they never did.  Another experiment is that Alaska tribal organizations are taking over child support enforcement from the state for children who have any Native blood.  There are many reasons why this is working poorly; a few are that noncustodial parents' employers in the Lower 48 don't heed wage attachments and other orders from tribes as they do from the state, child support outfits in other states don't work well with Alaska tribes, tribal governments won't pursue their own members for money owed, and tribal governments have higher operating costs than the state does (surprisingly enough).

No matter what race these caribou shooters (not hunters certainly) turn out to be and no matter where they live, they need to be prosecuted by Alaska law.  While the Alaska Dept. of Public Safety is a little disorganized right now, these people need to be brought to justice, the state needs to look for wounded caribou and deal with them, and federal meddling into Alaska fish and game regulation needs to be exposed for the failure that it is.  Where I live in Alaska, the smallest infraction of fish and game laws brings a quick and stern sentence; for instance, duck hunters carrying lead rounds are charged $100 per round.   Thanks for your time.     

Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 06:11:01 PM »
Where did this whole "subsistence" thing come from?  Was it from some sort of treaty, or something?  Why doesn't the state of Alaska sue to get control of its own wildlife management?  I would think the fact that the Federal Government is doing it would be unconstitutional.
  On a personal note, I have no problem with shooting poachers on sight...

Jim
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Offline kevthebassman

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 06:36:48 PM »
On a personal note, I have no problem with shooting poachers on sight...

Jim

Nor do I.  Having known some folks who poach deer just to be ornery a**holes (don't even bother to take the backstraps, or even get out of the truck) I can say that if I were in the bush and witnessed such wanton, pointless killing, I'd be hard-pressed not to start slinging lead.

Offline deltecs

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 04:50:54 AM »
Where did this whole "subsistence" thing come from?  Was it from some sort of treaty, or something?  Why doesn't the state of Alaska sue to get control of its own wildlife management?  I would think the fact that the Federal Government is doing it would be unconstitutional.
  On a personal note, I have no problem with shooting poachers on sight...

Jim

Just where did lower 48 Indian reservations come from and game management on them?
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline thxmrgarand

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 07:39:46 AM »
My account of the history of subsistence is that when the first energy crisis hit the US in the early 1970's, there was an urgency to building a pipeline to monetize proven oil reserves on the Alaska North Slope.  Alaska Natives threatened to litigate and hold up pipeline construction for decades if they didn't receive an answer to their land claims.  Their timing was propitious and they received $1 billion and 44 million acres so Americans could have Alaska oil ASAP.  On the 44 million acres are some of the best oil, minerals, and timber in the world.  The Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act, signed by President Nixon, clearly extinguished all Alaska Native rights and claims, as it was meant to do.  Then in 1980, along comes President Carter who wanted to give Alaska Natives a superior claim on hunting and fishing despite the law enacted 9 years earlier.  Since the Settlement Act had extinguished all race-based rights, Carter put in the Alaska National Interest Lands Act a superior right for hunting and fishing for "rural" people.  Rural is not defined anywhere in the act.  That superior right is in direct conflict with the Alaska Constitution so Alaska courts continue to say that fish and game belongs equally to all Alaskans but the federal government continues to cite ANILCA and say no, urban Alaskans can take fish and game only if rural people first have all they need (without regard to sustained yield by the way).  It's a mess of course, and the feds really want to give preference to Natives but the   law they have says rural instead of Native.  And the largest city in Alaska has more Alaska Natives than does any village.  The federal government is trying to force its social ideas on to Alaska even though the federal bureaucrats don't have the law behind them.  This wanton waste of caribou incident will be watched closely throughout Alaska and the final outcome will indicate if anything is likely to change.  Other people may have different accounts but that is mine.  There is an answer to why Alaska doesn't sue the federal government but time doesn't permit me to give my view, and perhaps others would like to give their views.  I would not argue with different or opposing views; and my wife and my dog maintain that I am often wrong.  Thanks for your time.   

Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 05:33:55 PM »
Where did this whole "subsistence" thing come from?  Was it from some sort of treaty, or something?  Why doesn't the state of Alaska sue to get control of its own wildlife management?  I would think the fact that the Federal Government is doing it would be unconstitutional.
  On a personal note, I have no problem with shooting poachers on sight...

Jim

Just where did lower 48 Indian reservations come from and game management on them?

Did this happen on a reservation?  If so, didn't catch that.   Around here, the Indians manage the game on their reservation.

Jim
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 08:58:15 PM »
The Native Corporation owns land, but there is no reservation in Alaska.

One of the major problems now with the rural people is caused by the white mans desire to educate the native people.  Many years ago the government brought the kids togeather for schooling in the cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks.  There the kids away from parental influnce learned whiteman ways and missed out on training in traditional ways of the village people.  As the kids got older they learned about partying and having fun, they were living an exciting life style.  The young men did not want to go back to the village.  The girls usually got pregnant and went back home to have the baby.  After the baby was born, she stayed for a few years then the isolation and boredom set in and she missed the fun and excitement of the city life.  She would leave the kid with Grandma and Grandpa, while she returned to the city.  Again she would get pregnant and return to have the baby.  And again she would leave the child with her parents to raise.  18 to 20 years later the cycle repeats itself, and Grandma and Grandpa are raising Great-grandkids.  Only now Grandpa is too old to take the kids out and teach them the native ways.  Those ways have been lost on the young people of the village and now we see the result.
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Offline ms

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2008, 12:29:44 AM »
Reply #10 on: Today at 01:58:15 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Native Corporation owns land, but there is no reservation in Alaska.

One of the major problems now with the rural people is caused by the white mans desire to educate the native people.  Many years ago the government brought the kids togeather for schooling in the cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks.  There the kids away from parental influnce learned whiteman ways and missed out on training in traditional ways of the village people.  As the kids got older they learned about partying and having fun, they were living an exciting life style.  The young men did not want to go back to the village.  The girls usually got pregnant and went back home to have the baby.  After the baby was born, she stayed for a few years then the isolation and boredom set in and she missed the fun and excitement of the city life.  She would leave the kid with Grandma and Grandpa, while she returned to the city.  Again she would get pregnant and return to have the baby.  And again she would leave the child with her parents to raise.  18 to 20 years later the cycle repeats itself, and Grandma and Grandpa are raising Great-grandkids.  Only now Grandpa is too old to take the kids out and teach them the native ways.  Those ways have been lost on the young people of the village and now we see the result. I agree!

Offline rex6666

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2008, 04:02:56 AM »
Sourdough
I think you are exactly right. It is the same in the lower 48.
It is not just an Indian problem, it is also a whitemans problem.
I work with a person that is 26 years old (white) His father has bought a big ranch.
This person never was taught ant thing about hunting or wild life even though his father
has always hunted, the boy was just to busy, he goes out with the right weapon (black gun)
according to him to hunt hogs 3- 30 round mags. shoots till the mag is empty at every hog he sees
his dad goes out and kills the cripples, the boy is bragging about the hunting trip, now he can not
under stand why he is only allowed on the ranch only with his dad.
Rex
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 07:20:23 AM »
For many years the Elders resisted the idea of roads going to the villages, they wanted to be isolated to not be as exposed to the modern life and ways.  They wanted to teach the young people the ways they were taught.  Problem was once the kids come to the city and are exposed to modern conviences and racey city life they want more of it.  They go back to the villages but soon tire of the slow quite life, it's boring to them.  They fly back in to the city.  Air travel is so expensive they can not afford to make the trip often so they stay in the city.  They now have two generations that have left the village and are living in the cities.  Leaving the elders and few young, mostly kids in the villages.  Now the elders realize that if there were roads to the villages the kids would come home more often.  And some of the convinces could be brought to the villages.

The problem now is with out someone like Senator Stevens in office we do not stand to get any roads like you people have in the lower 48. 

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Offline thxmrgarand

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2008, 08:09:57 AM »
My view is that trying to explain away law-breaking by giving a social history or by saying the government needs to build a few thousand more miles of road (for nonAlaskans, thousands of miles is what it would take to bring very many villages on to the road system) lets the law-breakers off the hook.  No doubt most of us had events in our early years that the liberal left (especially in their capacities as psychologists and sociologists) would say suffice as excuses for bad behavior but we follow the law nonetheless.  And everyone has ancestors who received bad treatment (and we also have ancestors who did the treatment to others) because that is the human condition.  This killing of over 100 caribou and wasting almost all the meat, and no doubt wounding many more caribou that walked off to slowly die on the tundra, needs to be prosecuted as a crime because that is what it is.  Many Alaskans believe that the real tragedy in rural Alaska is that villagers are told that they are better off staying in the village and receiving a lifetime of transfer payments (including free federal psychologists who tell them how right they are to be impaired because of what has been done to their ancestors) instead of being given the motivation to go find work (exactly as probably 99.9% of Graybeard subscribers had to do).    Personally, if I had stayed on the farm, milking 30 head, logging and making maple syrup, I would have stayed true to my culture but I would have missed out on an interesting career and today I would still be making barely enough money to pay property taxes on the farm.  The world didn't stop for me and I should not have expected that it would.  Thanks for your time.  One final note, I saw in the Wall Street Journal that Obama is supporting paying reparations to descendants of slavery so we may be in for a radical new direction in social policies (despite my view that it's already too radical).

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2008, 08:39:53 AM »
I'm not trying to give them an excuse, just trying to explain to people that are not familure with Alaska how it happened.  I like most other people feel that they should be punished.  Punishment should be swift and sever enough to make others think before they do something like this in the future.

 I have a sort of European outlook, I don't just look at the dead Caribou, but I also think about all the future Caribou they represent.  Like how many babies would each cow have had in her life time, and how many babies would each of them had.  In three generations that over 2,000 caribou (being conservative) per cow.  That's just on the cow side considering half of the calves were bulls, and not counting the offspring of the bulls.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2008, 09:45:44 AM »
  The thing is, this has been happening for a long time...  I saw some natives do a similar thing in Artic Village...  I've seen many other things that i felt the natives should have had there @$$'s kicked for too...

  Any one who thinks the natives are "wonderfull keepers of game" hasn't been around them as much as i have.

  DM

Offline thxmrgarand

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Re: Subsistence hunting in rural Alaska - Anchorage paper today
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2008, 11:17:09 AM »
Below is the most recent news article of which I am aware.  It appears that no one is talking.  Legislators and the administration need to be contacted to keep them watching and making sure the investigation continues.  I would suppose that anyone who obstructs the investigation needs to be prosecuted as I believe that is against the law.  I might quibble with the reporter's use of the term "hunter" but I should be happy the press is covering this at all since most reporters I know would be far happier if "urban trophy hunters" could be blamed for this mess.

Troopers stonewalled on caribou massacre

by Megan Baldino
Thursday, July 31, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Alaska State Troopers continue to investigate the massive slaughter of more than 60 caribou near Point Hope, but they say they need more information.

Trooper Maj. Steve Bear said they are having trouble getting people to answer questions in the small communities of Kivalina and Point Hope and have hit a stalemate.

Earlier this month, the un-harvested carcasses were found outside the two villages in northwest Alaska.

Wildlife troopers suspect hunters from the area were responsible, and charges are pending against five suspects.

But people are reluctant to talk, the troopers said.

"We know that these five aren't the only ones who did that," Bear said. "We know there are other people out there who did this, but we've kind of hit a stalemate there. We're not getting any more information."

A harvest of five caribou a day is allowed during the migration, but it's against the law to not harvest the meat.