22 Hornet SL report

[LaOtto222]

I got a chance to do some shooting today before I got rained out. Had new loads to try out. WW cases, WW 296 powder (12.0 grains), Rem 1 1/2 primers and Mid South 34 grain HP bullets.

Here is the last target at 50 yards. It started to rain before I got to the target, so the ink ran a little. I wanted to go to my 100 yard target, but like I said I was rained out.



I am getting there. I want to get to 1" @ 100 yards. The front rest was under the fore arm screw. I wanted to do some more experimenting, but like I said I got rained out. I think I am getting close now. I am still getting used to the trigger job, I just did on it; man is it light, but safe. I will start another thread about that. I am still getting used to it.

Here is a picture of the cases that shot this group. Group #4



I was running them over my Crony to see how the new loads were doing. The cases do not look like they are over pressure, but the proof is in the chronograph. These were shot out of a dirty barrel and no cleaning between strings. These were 5 shot strings.

Group #1 - Avg 2916 SD 59
Group #2 - Avg 2868 SD 11.5
Group #3 - Avg 2914 SD 27.2
Group #4 - Avg 2958 SD 43.4

According to the Hornady 7th addition 12.0 grains of 296 should get you 3000 fps (H110 - 3100 fps) with a 35 grain V-Max bullet. So I am right in there, about a full pressure load. I am loading out of an old lot of 296, so I have no idea what a new lot will do. I am a little preplexed over the differences in velocity between strings. The SD is is not real solid either, except Group #2 and it also had the slowest velocity average. Group #2 was about 1 1/2", but I blame that on myself, still trying to get used to the trigger.

[cwlongshot]

Please forgive me if you know this stuff. It appeared you where looking for advice/where unsure.

There are many many variables working here. Inconsistencies in velocity can come from any number of sources. From cases, neck tension, brass consistency, # of times reloaded. Not to mention, powder primer and you dies. First off, start with new or known history cases. (Same # of loading/firings)
 I don't get too caught up in these numbers personally. As long as my/your loading is done properly and consistently you'll be fine. Things like neck turning and case weighing do help but for the average shooter the return doesn't match the effort. I don't generally do them.

Here is a couple basic tips for more consistent loadings. Weigh each powder charge, (Don't scoop/dump it) Be sure powder is new or was properly stored from a known source. Use same primers from same box/same lot number. Use bullets from one manufacturer per load. Finally, be sure your dies are adjusted properly. A quick note in bullets, there are still some .223dia bullets available/floating around. Current 22 Hornets should use .224 bullets. Check your crimp. you don't need much if any in the handi. But crimp is used for a number of reasons. Not just bullet setback. The hornet uses the same fast powders as the 357,41 & 44mag cartridges. Like them a consistent crimp is almost necessary for consistent burn and stable pressures/velocities. So I use one in my hornet loadings. From you pic, it doesn't look like you are using any.

Again, if you know all this great. Looked like you where looking for advice.

Good luck,
 CW

[LaOtto222]

Thank you for the input. I did want to start a discussion. The cases are new and I did not use a crimp. It would make sense to use a crimp since that what is done with handguns using this powder. Using a crimp is another trial I will try, thanks. I have tried it in the past, but not with this batch/load. I was used a RCBS Charge Master 1500 to throw the powder charges. I know that there are warnings with WW 296 and H 110 about using too light of a charge. I had a dilemma of how much 296 to use. One book had a starting charge of 12.4 grains, others said that 12.0 was a max charge. Could it be that I need to increase the powder charge? I hate to do that because the velocities I am getting indicate a full charge and the Hornet case is so fragile. If I get any over pressure, it ruins the cases in short order. I get lots of stretching just above the web area. I have turned necks on my 223 and 221 fireball cases, but felt that the necks on the Hornet are very thin to start with and fairly uniform, so I did not turn these.

[stimpylu32]

LaOtto222

What you may want to try is to load the same cases , if you still have them sorted by group with the same load . Then run them over the Crony again to see if your speeds stay the same or at least close .

That will tell you if its the cases that are responsible for the difference in FPS , then load another batch with a light crimp to compair to the others . If this does not get you were you want to be , maybe look at either IMR4227 or H4227 as a powder choice , both do better in my 218 Bee as apposed to H110 / Win 296 .

stimpy

[cwlongshot]

You can use your powder measure, just throw them light and "trickle" them to exact charge weight.

 I also forget to mention, looking at cases to determine pressures is not the best method. Flattened primers certainly so a problem, but you don't definitively know the exact cause. Your on to a better way watching the web for thinning stretching. The Hornet is a relatively lo pressure cartridge so excessive brass flow is not common unless you have chamber dimension issues.

 You are also correct H110/296 do not have starting loads and should be used as shown. you will find variations because the differences in the time, place and conditions the loads where determined at. Meaning you need to "tweak" them for your rifle under your conditions. I don't have a manual handy, but 12gr sounds about right. (Don't trust memory, pick a manual and use that data.)

 You are also correct the neck of the hornet is quite thin and troublesome for some re-loaders because of that. Like I said, I wouldn't be looking to uniform them anyhow.

I really feel you will find the most improvement with great-or neck tension found by a crimp. How much is what you need to work out with your rifle, and that's half the fun of it..

CW

[LaOtto222]

To Richard and cwlongshot  - Thanks for the advice and just plain gun talk.

1. I am going to work with the 296 a little more.
2. I still have 50+ of the same lot, so I will crimp 20 and see how they do.
3. If I am still not getting to where I want I will give IMR 4227 a try (I have some)

I have tried Lil'gun but I have gotten very erratic results, any where from blown primers to mild looking witht he same loads. Plus Lil'gun is not the best choice for light bullets. I am getting ready to go out after lunch, hopefully I can get some answers.

[quickdtoo]

I tried Lil'gun with 30gr bullets and got quite a bit of variation in velocity, so tried 110 it was recommended by the bullet mfr and got the same results, I crimp with a Lee FCD.  Lil'gun works great with the 35gr Vmax tho, so that one's got me baffled too. I haven't tried pistol primers yet, that's next.   

Tim

[dpe.ahoy]

I didn't use the Chrono on my loads, but the 40g V-max and 55g hornady both shot the best.  I was using LilGun in mine which is a reg. 22 Hornet barrel.  The 35's seemed to have a bigger group.  I need to load more up and go try again.  I really need to get going on my reloading, running low on alot of things.  One problem with having so many different calibers I guess.  Just counted, right now I load for 24 different cartridges, not alot but enough to keep a guy hopping.  DP

[LaOtto222]

Ok I did some more shooting today. I am not very happy with the group sizes at all. I am still not sure if it me or the gun/loads. These were shot at 50 yards again. I had another gun I wanted to zero and do some load development with too. It is a Savage 221 FB - that is for another thread in another area. The load was virgin WW Cases, 12.0 grains of 296, Remington 1 1/2 primers and Mid South Varmint Nightmare 34 Grain HP. The first string was un-crimped. The next three were crimped.



Group #1 - well you can see Un-Crimped
Group #2 - 1st group shot with crimp
Group #3 - Put 3 shots into 1 hole then vertically strung the other two (not sure of order) - 4th shot pierced the primer, but the edges look no different than the rest of the shots in this lot. Velocity on this shot was 2900 fps - 22 fps under the average, but not the lowest in the string.
Group #4 - Had an extra shot due to forgetting to record third shot

Overall I am not happy at all. I think these groups are awful. The only glimmer is the Group #3 that had three go into 1 hole. Maybe it is me too - I am stumped - still searching. There are so many different combinations.

I think I will try some 4227 next. If I do not get any where then maybe switch primers or bullets or both

edit - forgot to mention that the un-crimped string had the lowest SD - 12 go figure