7m08 for buffalo.

[ms]

I saw this young boy kill this 1800 lb buffalo with a 7m08 at 70 yards. He had cheap ammo the buffalo fell over dead. It was on Warren outdoors I couldn't believe it.

[yooper77]

Not hard to believe.

7x57 Mauser has killed most anything in Africa, so its not surprising or shocking to me.

The big fat nuclear magnums are all hype, because nothing beats a well placed shot from a standard 30-06 Springfield or 308 Winchester parent case with an adequate constructed bullet, which is my choice.

yooper77

[EVOC ONE]

Not hard to believe at all.

I sometimes wonder how many were killed back in the frontier days with the .30-30 or .44-40 or any other cartridges typical of that era that by todays standards would be considered light. 

 

[beemanbeme]

Yooper, when someone makes a statement as stupid as " the big fat nuclear magnums are all hype" it tells me they probably have a tattoo on their forehead that says "Pilgrim".  According to your information, they should use .243's for culling Cape Buffaloes and, of course, if you were to book a hunt for one of the great bears, be sure and tell your guide that you want him to back up the .223 that you'll be using with a 30-30.  Oh, and for your jumbo hunt, tell your PH that he needn't take more than a .308 to back up your 7-08.  'Cause it 's where you stick 'em. Right?  See how many takers you get.  ROFLMAO

I doubt that many buffalo were killed with the 30-30. When it came along, the buffalo were pretty much gone.  By any road, most of the buffalo were killed with big calibre rifles. 50's and 55's.  I'm sure if you hit the buffalo enough times with the thing or got lucky, you could kill a bufflalo with a 30-30.

[yooper77]

Nothing beats a well placed shot from a adequate cartridge from a ethical hunter, which of course is my opinion.

My choice would be any cartridge from standard 30-06 Springfield or 308 Winchester parent cases, will handle any animal that walks the planet.

yooper77

[ms]

I thought for sure that big buffalo would run after the boy shot him he just dropped dead. My hat goes off to that 8 year boy.

[Brithunter]

Nothing beats a well placed shot from a adequate cartridge from a ethical hunter, which of course is my opinion.

My choice would be any cartridge from standard 30-06 Springfield or 308 Winchester parent cases, will handle any animal that walks the planet.

yooper77

Hmmm I gather that yooper does not hunt dangerous game as with this stupid attitude he will surely lose his life as so many daft buggers have done before when using too small a calibre. The large bores were developed to provide massive shocking power, this shocking power does not drop the beast with shock but by normal penetration of vital organs but the shocking power does turn a charge and so often saving the shooters hide  . Of course the velocity cranks thougth to improve on this like Weatherby and ended up with a less effective cartidge  well in stuff like Elephant and Cape Buffalo.

[drdougrx]

I'm sure it can be done with a well placed bullet.  I think it's folly though.  I shot my 2000lb bison w a 375HH.  A 30-06 with a heavy bullet would have done just fine though I would have had to have been much more selective of the shot.  I wouldn't do it w a 7-08.  I have a 7x57 and I think I'd also pass using that cartridge.  I'd suggest that 30 is the smallest caliber that one should consider based on my experience of 1 animal.

Magnums....well....that have their place and I'd prefer one over a standard caliber when the hunt is very expensive, the conditions are bad (weather) and the animals are big (.400lbs).

[Lone Star]

For those who have apparently not studied the Great Buffalo Hunt.....

Most were killed between 1870 and 1880 - by which time only a few thousand were though to have escaped out of millions killed for their meat (initially) and then their hides.  Most were killed by "professional" hunters whose skills ranged very widely, although amateurs did their share.   When setting up for a "stand," good hunters shot the lead cow so she did not die immediately.  This confused the herd, keeping them in the immediate area longer. 

Initially popular were surplus .50-70 Springfields - the .45-70 wasn't introduced in volume until most of the animals were dead.  The most successful hunters started with larger caliber like the .50-70 and .50-90, but experience moved the caliber choice down to the .44s, then to the .40s.  Why the trend?  Less recoil, flatter trajectory, plenty of killing power.  I have no doubt that a similar hunt today could be done successfully with much smaller calibers.


.

[beemanbeme]

L.S. I've not made an actual study of the buffalo hunting as such. What knowledge I have was gained while reading other books about the west but I thought the main thrust of the buffalo hunting was to destroy them as a life support for the indians since efforts to control them and bring them onto reservations hadn't been too successful.  The hide trade was a spin off of this and the meat was kinda left to rot.  Subsequently, collecting bones for the fertilizer companies flourished for a while.  ??

I watched a TV special where the Crow Indians (I think) killed a buffalo for some occasion. The one they shot was docile as a milk cow and they shot it in the neck with a 30-30. 

[yooper77]

beemanbeme & Brithunter,

nice name calling, really shows your maturity.

yooper77

[Graybeard]

The 7-08 sure wouldn't be my first choice but by the same token if it was all I had I'd load up with the proper bullet and go for it. On my first exotic hunt to Texas we met a couple who were hunting on the same ranch as us. The wife had taken a buffalo aka American Bison using her .243 Winchester. One shot kill so she reported. I saw the head and hide of it at the taxidermy place and that thing was HUGE.

[beemanbeme]

yooper, I've never made any claims to maturity. Only experience.  I will also be the first to admit that all my information about hunting DG comes either second hand or from travel brochures.  But that second hand information came from men that were giants in the field of DG hunting and were PH's of renown. Not a single one of them were of the opinion that size doesn't matter.  The PH's call the rifle that they carry for back up "stoppers" not "killers" because that rifle was to send a massive weight of shocking metal into the animal and stop or turn it. As Brit pointed out.

There are probably more elk killed every year with 30-06's and 180gr Rem Core lokt bullets than anything else. I killed my first elk with a 30-06.  BUT,if you were to check, they're also probably mostly locals. And if they don't get a good shot this week-end, there's always next week-end and the next.  If I lived in CO, or WY, or MT, I'd maybe try some of these pop guns they brag about. But since I would likely be on a week long DIY hunt where my only shot might be a raking shot at a fleeing bull thru the timber or a six square inch patch of shoulder, I am going to be totting something that I know will do the job under adverse conditions. "it's where you stick 'em that counts" sounds really grand but seldom do you get those "Christmas Card" poses in real life. 

Before we get too wound up with this, have you ever hunted with a magnum?  Have you ever shot one? 

There are more people killed in the USA every year with a .22 than all the other calibres combined BUT if a 250# crazed druggy was intent on doing me harm, I'll take my .357 and let you have the .22 'cause it's where you stick 'em that counts right?

[Lone Star]

....but I thought the main thrust of the buffalo hunting was to destroy them as a life support for the indians since efforts to control them and bring them onto reservations hadn't been too successful.  The hide trade was a spin off of this and the meat was kinda left to rot....

Not according to those who studied and wrote in a scollarly manner about the Great Buffalo Hunt.  They note that while the Army supported killing buffalo to hurt the Indians' lifestyle, it was economics that was the chief driver.  At first it was killing for meat to feed the Eastern tables - but when the great herds of feral cattle were killed off in Patagonia there was a huge  demand for the leather that the Souith American animals had formerly supplied.  It was far easier for the average hunter to get hides to market than to dry/smoke/salt the meat, so by the early-1870s the meat was left to rot in the pursuit of the several dollars each hide brought.  Note that the South Americans decimated their wild herds before the US did - not that it matters much.  Wayne Gard's book is the most in-depth and entertaining of the several I've read on the subject.



.

[beemanbeme]

L.S. Thank you. I knew a bit about the Patagonian hide trade from reading sailing books (I'm an old tidewater boy) but my knowledge of the demise of the buffalo was rather sketchy.  FYI, they would pack the Patagonian hides in so tightly that if they took much water on return, the hides could swell and literally tear the ship apart. 

[jro45]

I would say he was lucky with a 7m08. I don't know much about the 7m08 but I wouldn't take my 7mm Rem Mag hunting buffalo hunting and I think it has more power then the 7m08.

[Lone Star]

I would say he was lucky with a 7m08./...

I'm not certain that I would use the term 'lucky', as plenty of elephants were killed with the 7x57 (which is about equivalent to the 7-08).  But there are certainly more appropriate cartridges for animals weighing well over a ton.  Just because a certain cartridge can  kill a buffalo does not mean it is the best choice for most buffalo hunters.


.

[dpe.ahoy]

Sure as hell don't need a magnum or a big bore to kill a bison, elk or any other big game animal here in Montana.  Many are taken every year with the 243, 260, 6.5x55 ect.  We aren't talking stopping charges, but taking an animal on a hunt.  The only bison I've heard of charging anyone is the stupid tourists that go to Yellowstone Park and go to stand by the "tame" animals to get their picture taken.  Guess that helps remove some of the "stupid" genes out of the human gene pool, unfortunately, they have usually passed those on to the ones taking the picture.  DP.

[crash87]

I'm far from an expert on the killing of a Bison having only taken 2. 40/65 win on one and a 45/70 on the other, both with cast. But I've seen "a few" others taken with a 270 and '06. A number of ranches that raise Bison for hunting suggest and/or recommend you shoot the Bison in the head near the ear. The reason for this is that you don't get but 50# of meat, along with the head and hide in your hunt and the rest is sold. Obviously they don't want to throw out a bunch of blood shot meat. (I by the way did not hunt this type of hunt) I've made this analogy before, but here goes again albeit a bit different.......
    No one would argue, well maybe some, that a 7mm Rem ultra mag is adequate for Bison, yet a 7/08 is marginal if not down right unethical. But when the projectile leaves the barrel it is nothing more than a 284 dia. bullet. A 7mm in the heart/lungs on a bison at 100yds from a 7/08 is just as dead as one from a ultra at 400yds. You boys looking for an altercation, please by all means start throwing paper ballistics around, be advised I'm not listening. ( leaving for a 2 week job tommarrow and won't be around, LOL)
   As far as putting the American Bison in the dangerous game category, I'm not, and I've read the stories too. Most Bison In my humble experience are usually shot at 100yds +/-, unless of course your using archery tackle or a revolver. One more minor point I'd like to make. Again this is from my humble experience as opposed to opinion. Believe it or not there are a few Dangerous Game outfitters in the U.S. (and that does not stand for Africa) that would rather have you bring your underpowered, well worn, can hit a flies ass at 100yds, '06 with appropriate bullets, than to run out and buy the latest thing the gun hacks are getting paid to write about and get a few free hunts out of that you just might not be able to shoot so very well.    Have fun Boys...CRASH87

[Brithunter]

beemanbeme & Brithunter,

nice name calling, really shows your maturity.

yooper77

Hmmm actually it was you by making such a stupid statement in the first place that shows you lack on maturity the very same thinking has cost lot's of lives and not only of the stupid shooters who were using too small amd weak a cartridge but those who tried to help and protect same idiots..

Whilst I have never had the chance to persue really big game nor dangerous game I have listened to real life experieinces of others that have. One of which is my cousin who until about 4 years ago was a ranger in Zimbawe who's job it was to protect the game and has to clear up the mess left my poachers and stupid sport hunters who thought it clever to use small and inadequate cartridges  . Having to chase down and finish off game that had been shot several times with .30 cal rifles and then left to die slowly is not much fun nor very safe and they tend to try and kill anyone who approaches ................ and who can blame them.

He finally gave it up after the poachers decided the game rangers were a problem best removed by mines placed in and around protected game shot for that purpose. Finding a protected animal dead they had to establish the cause of death and it was only a matter of time before they missed a hidden charge or mine and got blown to pieces so he now lives and works in New Zealand.

[dukkillr]

Sure as hell don't need a magnum or a big bore to kill a bison, elk or any other big game animal here in Montana.  Many are taken every year with the 243, 260, 6.5x55 ect.  We aren't talking stopping charges, but taking an animal on a hunt.  The only bison I've heard of charging anyone is the stupid tourists that go to Yellowstone Park and go to stand by the "tame" animals to get their picture taken.  Guess that helps remove some of the "stupid" genes out of the human gene pool, unfortunately, they have usually passed those on to the ones taking the picture.  DP.

You guys are missing an important point.  That buffalo was tame.  If that shot hadn't killed it they'd just follow the edge of the pasture and shoot it again.  This isn't the same as shooting wild, free range animals that could escape, suffer or be lost.  Not long ago someone posted a picture of a kid with an elk that was killed with a 30-30.  Same story, "Look at this kid and this little gun you all won't use, blah blah blah..." Then Nonya and a couple of other people who actually hunt wild elk recognized that this elk was indeed in a pasture and the poster dropped the discussion.

A buffalo can be killed with a .223, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Drilling Man]

I would say he was lucky with a 7m08. I don't know much about the 7m08 but I wouldn't take my 7mm Rem Mag hunting buffalo hunting and I think it has more power then the 7m08.

  I wouldn't hesitate to hunt and kill a Bison with a 7-08 loaded with a tough bullet, i'd just pick my shots...  And i've already seen 7 Rem. Mags. loaded with 175 NP's flatten the biggest brown bears, so it's a "people" problem, not a "cartridge" problem!

  There's nothing in NA that i would be afraid to hunt with a 7 Rem. mag. loaded as above!  I wouldn't be undergunned either...

  DM

[nomosendero]

Sure as hell don't need a magnum or a big bore to kill a bison, elk or any other big game animal here in Montana.  Many are taken every year with the 243, 260, 6.5x55 ect.  We aren't talking stopping charges, but taking an animal on a hunt.  The only bison I've heard of charging anyone is the stupid tourists that go to Yellowstone Park and go to stand by the "tame" animals to get their picture taken.  Guess that helps remove some of the "stupid" genes out of the human gene pool, unfortunately, they have usually passed those on to the ones taking the picture.  DP.

You guys are missing an important point.  That buffalo was tame.  If that shot hadn't killed it they'd just follow the edge of the pasture and shoot it again.  This isn't the same as shooting wild, free range animals that could escape, suffer or be lost.  Not long ago someone posted a picture of a kid with an elk that was killed with a 30-30.  Same story, "Look at this kid and this little gun you all won't use, blah blah blah..." Then Nonya and a couple of other people who actually hunt wild elk recognized that this elk was indeed in a pasture and the poster dropped the discussion.

A buffalo can be killed with a .223, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Yes, that is dead on, at least concerning shooting/hunting conditions.

While growing up I saw alot of hogs killed in the hog pen with a 22long rifle, shot between the eye & ear. But that would not mean that the
22lr is a Hog round to be used in the woods now would it? You have to consider different angles that may be required with the shot, distance &
other variables. Shooting animals in feedlot conditions as opposed to in the hunting fields is 2 totally different things.

Of course that is extreme compared to using a 7-08 on a Buffalo & I know about the many, many Moose killed in Scand. with the 6.5X55, but if I am going to spend money & go a ways to harvest a big animal, I have no reason not to take a little bigger round or at least good bullets. Yes indeed you have high SD with a 140 in the 6.5 or the 175 in the 7mm cal, hence penetration, but you can have high SD with the 220 in 30 cal or 250gr in 338 & I would prefer that. And you can't say on the one hand that the 7mag is a good Elk round at 300 yards, but the 7-08 won't kill a Buffalo at 70 yards, but I would rather use a more capable weapon on the Buffalo, esp. considering the "cheap bullet" stuff.

And most serious hunters I know who use a 7mag on bigger animals use better bullets for this. As Drilling Man pointed out, he used the 175NP for
Bears & that is a real penetrater. That really has nothing to do with a 7-08 & "cheap bullets".

I am a little curious as to why the 2 Buffalo threads were started here. Of course people can use light tools for a job & "cheap bullets" & come out OK if careful.
So what?