hey ricciardelli (and other experts)

[mjbgalt]

how much longshot can i use in my .45 colt blackhawk?

on steve's pages it says that a 240- 250 grain bullet can be used with 12.0 to 13.4 grains of longshot but for the 260-grain bullet it is not listed.

here's what i want: i have a pound of it to use, and i love this powder in my .357. i would like to use it in the .45 as well. i want 1000 fps out of a 260 grain bullet.

can this work? yes, I know this is not the optimal load, etc....

-Matt

[jhalcott]

  have YOU considered contacting the manufacturer to get  OFFICIAL loading data. They would be aware of any dangers involved in this attempt. I wouldn't use an annonomous tip from an inter net lurker, after all those guys some time get a kick out of putting a virus in your system! 

[PaulS]

Matt,
contact your bullet maker, the powder company and if those don't work then give Sierra a call.
There are a lot of very heavy loads on Steve's pages and he has a note somewhere in there that is supposed to nullify the concept that he "has loaded these and they are safe in his guns". Some of the loads are well over any data I have ever seen in any reliable load data.

[Grumulkin]

I always check more than one source if available when reloading.  That said, for loads that aren't wimped up for the attorneys, Steve's Pages is a good resource.

[Graybeard]

Geez there are no loads "wimped up for the attorneys". In the old days loads were worked up by guess and by golly not using pressure measuring equipment. Now most use pressure measuring equipment and stay within SAAMI pressure limits. That has nothing to do with attorneys.

If you wish to ignore pressures then by all means do so just fill the case up with whatever ya want and have at it no need to use pressure tested data. Heck you might be lucky and never blow up a gun. Of course you might not be lucky and might lose some body parts also. Hell if you wish to ignore established pressure levels get your data where ever you wish.. I'll stick to pressure tested data personally.

[Grumulkin]

I wouldn't dream of ignoring pressures however "maximum" loads in the manuals don't always correspond to excessively high pressure.  Sometimes it's just that the load might possibly be used in an older weaker firearm.  Sometimes it's because the manufacturer of a bullet wimps down the load because their bullets can't stand up to higher velocity, etc.

[Reed1911]

I'll stay away from the other's comments, and lay it out like this: Longshot is not a very bulky powder in a 45LC case, there are other good powders out there that will achieve the 1KFPS with a 260g bullet safely that will fill the case much better and/or at lower pressure. Often fast burning powders can be used in large cases with good results but it is not often that the accuracy will be the best.

[mjbgalt]

THERE'S what i was looking for...the WHY and the yes or no. the more we learn...

thanks.

-Matt

[Reed1911]

What other powders do you have sitting around or easily available and I'd be happy to give you a recommendation and load data from documented sources.

[mjbgalt]

accurate no. 7 and 2400.

i also have varget and 4064 but i don't think thats gonna work!! 

-Matt

[Reed1911]

For 2400 start at 18.0g  For #7 start at 13.5

With 2400 the start load is going to be real close to 1KFPS for #7 about 14.3-14.5 will be around 1000KFPS

[Lloyd Smale]

you cant allways make that general statement either. If you take say a 257 roberts and look at data for it it will be on the low side. So a guy figures he can bump those loads up. You may get away with it with the slow burning powders listed but bumping up a load with a faster burning powder can get you into serious trouble.  I dont think if a doctor told you to take 500 millagrams of a medication youd go and take 550 figureing it would just work better. So why does everybody think they know more then the people printing loading manuals? Also what do you really think your gaining but pushing your load to the max. Maybe another 100 fps which will do nothing in the field and probably doubleing the wear and tear on your gun.

I wouldn't dream of ignoring pressures however "maximum" loads in the manuals don't always correspond to excessively high pressure.  Sometimes it's just that the load might possibly be used in an older weaker firearm.  Sometimes it's because the manufacturer of a bullet wimps down the load because their bullets can't stand up to higher velocity, etc.

[mjbgalt]

well the deal is that i have two .45 colts. one is a ruger and one is a beretta stampede. i want to be able to shoot either one with my loads and not damage the beretta.

-Matt

[Reed1911]

Matt,

Then we need to talk a little here. I think (you will want to verify this with Beretta) the the Stampede is rated ONLY for the older SAA loads and not the high pressure Ruger loads. (I'm 80% certain here so checking with them is needed) If that is the case you will not be able to get to 1000FPS with a 260g bullet without exceeding the max pressure spec of 14KCUP. Holding to that I do not have any soure loads for #7 and 2400 at that pressure and I'd recommend going to a faster powder and low pressure loads. If Beretta says thier gun is able to handle the higher pressure then go for it, but you need ot check with them

[mjbgalt]

well i saw that the original load for .45 was 40 grains of black powder and a 255 grain bullet right around 900-1000 fps. so i thought if i could duplicate that, i would be in the clear on both guns.

-Matt

[stimpylu32]

Matt

The problem is that BP and smokeless do not operate in the same pressure curves to reach the same FPS , The BP load may only reach a level of 12K PSI to propell a bullet @ 1000 FPS , while to reach the same speed would create a PSI of 18K or more with a smokeless powder .

Stimpy

[mjbgalt]

so i need to find a smokeless load which can come closer to the curve of the original bp load...

why do people say that the .45 with a 255-grain bullet can handle 1,000 fps then? they must be using ONLY certain powders...

-Matt

[stimpylu32]

Matt

Sure the 45LC can be pushed to over 1000 FPS , but not all guns will be able to handle that . Here are a few examples of just how much difference a powder can make , all their data is MAX load from Hodgdon's web site for the 45LC using a 200g cast bullet .

IMR SR7625 - 9.1g - 996 FPS - 12,800 PSI

IMR 4756 - 10g - 986 FPS - 12,100 PSI

800X - 9.3g - 1042 FPS - 13,500 PSI

By looking at loads #1 & #3 the powder charge is almost the same but the pressure is higher by 700 PSI in load 3 but the powder charge is only .02 grains diffrent , and yet load #2 uses more powder and produces much less PSI as well as FPS .

Hope this helps some .

Richard

[Grumulkin]

So why does everybody think they know more then the people printing loading manuals? Also what do you really think your gaining but pushing your load to the max. Maybe another 100 fps which will do nothing in the field and probably doubleing the wear and tear on your gun.

I would like to clarify several things:

1.  I see no benefit in pushing any load to the max unless there is a benefit in accuracy.  A few of my loads are pushed to the published max or a bit over but most are significantly under the published max.  Nevertheless I am conservative about pressure and would not shoot loads with excessive pressure.

2.  If you think of a loading manual as a bible, you need to read a few more.  During a recent foray into reloading for a 257 Weatherby Magnum, the starting load in one manual was close to the maximum load in another manual.  You can also read what the maximum SAMI pressures are and then go to the annual Hodgdon reloading magazine and you will find that there are numerous instances of the "maximum" load with one powder having significantly lower pressure than with another powder and many cases of where the "maximum" published load is well below SAMI specs.  This happens especially with Weatherby cartridges with something in the SAMI spec range of 65,000 psi.

Also, in the case of the 460 S&W Magnum and according to the new Speer manual, it says "The maximum average pressure set for the 460 S&W is 65,000 psi" and then goes on to say "We have held even our full-power loads to that of factory ammunition-around 55,000 psi."  Why would they do this?  They say it's for reliable case extraction but I would surmise it's also because they don't consider their bullets up to 460 S&W velocities or because they believe that some guns made can't take 65,000 psi.  I didn't get a 460 S&W Mag. to shoot wimp loads.

3.  You will also find instances of cartridges derived from similar cases like all those belted magnum cases based on the 300 H&H Magnum case with different SAMI pressure maximums.  There is no logical reason for this; if the pressure is safe in one cartridge based on that case it will be safe in another.

4.  Then there are all of those older cartridges like the 45-70.  The Hornady manual lists categories of loads for this cartridge based on the type of firearm the cartridges will be used in so apparently it's recognized, as if no one knew this, that pressures that are safe in one gun may not be safe in another.