45/70 Short Idea ? ( Up Date )

[stimpylu32]

I posted this in the Wildcat area too but wanted to run it by you guys also . I was thinking ( scary I know ) We all know that a 38 spl will shoot just fine in a 357 mag or max chamber , the same with 45 lc in a 454 and 45/70 in a 45/110 .

But what about a 45/70 cut down to 1.600" and fired in a standard 45/70 chamber , this would fit for those places like Indiana were deer must be hunted with a case Max OL of 1.625 and a bullet Dia. of .358 .

What do you think ? or even neck it down to .452 or .429 and use pistol bullets ? Granted a custom chamber would be needed for the necked down round but not for the ,458's .

stimpy

[tykempster]

Why do a short case instead of just loading it light?  The necking down for pistol bullets however...interesting!

[dpe.ahoy]

stimpy, what do you eat at night before going to bed?   Don't know where else you would be dreaming this stuff up.   Kinda like the idea of it though, a 44 Macho-mag.  Yep, I think I like it.   DP

[handirandy]

Does Indy go off of chamber length or cart. length?  Might be an issue.  What are the chances of fire ringing or buildup in a standard chamber?  Sounds good in theory.  A 45-?? short or 458x##.  Case would be thicker at that length if 45-70 were trimmed.  Bullet seating and tight chambering might be a concern if fired in a standard 45-70 chamber. Would you use pistol or rifle powder?  Would anything be gained over a 454?
Just some thoughts?


Praise the Lord.  We've got the ammunition.

[trotterlg]

Some place I believe that Indiana rules say it has to be a commercially available round or something factory chambered?  Someone who can check this out please do it.  Larry

[stimpylu32]

Larry

This is more of a what if kinda thing but according to what Indiana lists on their web site this round would be legal as it would be classed as a handgun round just by design and case specs .

I was thinking more of a case of could it work rather than could I use it for Indy deer season .

stimpy

[Smokin Joe]

Frank Barnes experimented with this idea many years ago in his .45 Silhouette, a .45-70 shortened to 1.5".
 He was getting 1810 fps from a 20" barrel with the 300 grain JHP and 1240 from a 10" pistol.

[Ditchdigger]

Instead of necking a 45 70 down to .429,just ream a 44 mag barrel out to 445 supermag. The 445 case is 1.6" long and you can get 1975 fps out of a 22" barrel and a 300 gr. bullet.  2160 fps. with the 265 gr. Hornady is not shabby either.   Digger

[torpedoman]

to get consistent accuracy you would have to shorten the chamber.

[stimpylu32]

As of now I have 20 prototype cases loaded , 10 with Pryrodex Select and 10 with Trail Boss , I picked these to start as they should generate very low pressures  . I HOPE

Here are some of the specs for the new round .

Cases are trimmed to 1.600"

Bullet is a 330 cast HP , .458 Dia.

C.O.L. = 2.045"

Case cap in CCs = 2.25 ( just over the 454 Casull @ 2.19 )

Primer = CCI 200 Large Rifle

If all goes as planned I should see around 850 to 900 FPS with these loads .

To be real honest I don't expect this round to do anything that a 454 Casull or even the 45LC with Ruger / TC level loads could do , as I said this is more of a Can I Do It thing .

I think that I have reached that point in life were I went from Reloader to Handloader and these little Handi rifles are just such a great platform to work from ( cheap & simple ) that they let me do some things that I could not or would not do with some of my more expensive guns .

On another note , I checked the case mouth after I ran the cut down case into the 45/70 FL Sizer and it came out to .452" just right if I decide to do something with a 45LC cal. bullet .

One last thing I need to work out is how to put a crimp on the bullet , its way too short for the 45/70 die . 

stimpy

[rbergum95]

what about a .45 colt lee taper die or factory crimp die??

[jon f]

Stimpy,
           You don't need much of a crimp if its used in a single shot. Its not as if recoil will push the projectile back.
                                                   Jon.

[LaOtto222]

The shortened 45-70 would not do any thing that the 454 could do, maybe not as well. But if you have a 45/70 and do not have a 454, you could get potentially near 454 performance. I would think that only .458" bullets would work in a 45/70. A .452" bullet would not grab the rifling and get little or not spin on it. As far as the "neck" it may be too thick. It would depend on the chamber/cartridge stack up. If it is a problem - that could be remedied through neck reaming. Just ream the inside of the case down the inside 1/2" or so and it would be thin enough to hold a bullet with out being too big in diameter to chamber. I do not know what advantage there would be to take a .452 barrel and ream the chamber to accept 45/70 cases over reaming a 454 chamber. The "short" would give you a looong throat. It may harm accuracy or may not. It depends on the original throat and bullets being used. Look at the Handi 357 mag, it has a long throat by design. I think the 45/70 "short" would be fun and good medicine for Indiana deer if you have a 45/70 and do not have other choices like a 44 Mag, 45 LC, 445, 454, etc.

[coyotejoe]

I've been thinking along similar lines for different reasons Stimpy.  I tend to load my 45/70 very light, 300 & 325 grain cast bullets over 10-15 grains of Unique. With such small charges in that cavernous case I always use a filler. The thought which occurred to me was that I could easily get the same ballistics from a .45 Colt case with less fuss and bother. Western offers a 325 grain gas check bullet in .452" diameter so I'm thinking of adding a .45 Colt barrel to my handi. Does anyone know the actual groove diameter of an H&R .45 Colt barrel? One could do the same, perhaps even better with a .44 Mag but H&R .44 mags have that damnable 38" twist.

[Smokin Joe]

stimpy, you don't need to worry about crimping; just remove the depriming rod and run the loaded case about 3/16" into the sizing die.......makes a perfect taper crimp.