38 sp. FMJ FLAT NOSE

[JonnyC]

I just purchased some Winchester 38 SPECIAL FMJ. I discovered it has a flat nose. Can anyone tell me how they think this will work for self defense. ? Since it is FMJ and a Flat Nose- I wonder if it will work as good as a hard cast wadcutter or semi wadcutter offered by Buffalo Bore.?

[Mikey]

Jonny - depending on the design of the 'flat nose' it should be sufficient for self defense - heck, even the old roundnose worked most of the time on the first shot.  The bullet is a fmj and should not deform, which will help.  If the flat nose is in the shape of a true semi-wadcutter all the better but 'flatter noses' than a round one are an improvement. 

I don't know how Buffalo Bore loads its wadcutters or swcs but I would assume a wadcutter load is meant for target or match shooting and would be loaded to target or match velocities and not be anything to get wildly excited about.  However I have always felt a man would have to be a fool to stand in front of a moving wadcutter slug but, you have lots of them out there.  If Buffalo Bore loads a 38 Spl semiwadcutter defensive load I'm willing to bet it is going to be about as good as you can get from a 38 swc load. 

If you reload I would suggest your trying either a Colorado Cast Bullet or a Mount Baldy cast bullet in 200 gn semi-wadcutter configuration over Winchester 231 powder to duplicate the old Winchester Police Load.  I use the same bullet in my 357 loads over a full charge of Winchester 296 for a hunting load.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[SharonAnne]

why do you think winchester intended this ammunition for self defense?

[Cottonwood]

If you bullets look like these from Montana Gold Bullets



Then no, these are intended for target and plinking only as they will zip thru a body and or walls just like a round nose bullet will, and then you will have to worry about what is behind on the other side.

You would do better with JHP rounds by Winchester like these:



For many this is all they still carry in their J framed Smith and Wesson's.
Or even in the 158-gr SWCHP



JMHO

[JonnyC]

They are full metal jackets with a flat top. I can't shoot +P in my gun.

[Cottonwood]

What .38 Spl do you have?

[JonnyC]

Older Model 60 stainless.

[Cottonwood]

Because your not going to get much feet per second in normal .38 Spl loadings, I would use a 158-gr SWC load because I want a heavy hitter and bone penitration.

Here is a good write up about ammo and the S&W mod 60

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

[44 Man]

You CAN shoot +P's in your model 60.  Those were tested with .357 mag pressures when they first came out.  It's not going to come apart on you, but a steady diet would loosen the gun up where it would likely need service sooner.  But you can do like I do.  I shoot +P's in my old (1960's) 37 lightweight.  I practice with regular loads, but I carry +P's and shoot the cylinder empty occasionally.  The gun is fine.  Enjoy.  44 Man

[slim rem 7]

my gunsmith tells me he ll replace my smithee 60 if the plus p hurts it in anyway .. it don t seem to know its not suppose to use plus p.. shoots it fine..got a box of 158 swc +ps ordered for it now.. if he gets me the buffulo stuff ,he s been around a long time so ill go with what he says..

[revolvergeek]

I don't know how Buffalo Bore loads its wadcutters or swcs but I would assume a wadcutter load is meant for target or match shooting and would be loaded to target or match velocities and not be anything to get wildly excited about.  However I have always felt a man would have to be a fool to stand in front of a moving wadcutter slug but, you have lots of them out there.  If Buffalo Bore loads a 38 Spl semiwadcutter defensive load I'm willing to bet it is going to be about as good as you can get from a 38 swc load. 

The ballistics and penetration of the Buffalo Bore loads are pretty serious. www.brassfetcher.com did a test of them. Out of a S&W 642, the 150 HCWC averaged ~900fps with 23 inches of gelatin penetration. Our local Cabela's store has them and I plan on picking up a box to try out. Seems like it would make an excellent critter load and I am planning on putting a few boxes of it on my Christmas wish list.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo%20Bore%20Ammunition%20150gr%20standard%20pressure%20Hard%20Cast%20Wad%20Cutter.html

The Federal Match .38 wadcutter load was much more sedate at ~600fps, but still managed in inches of penetration. Not too shabby at all.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/38wadcutter.html

Personally, I normally keep my .38 snubs loaded with Gold Dot 135 GDHP +p, and carry a spare speed strip or two full of Speer Lawman 158 FPTMJ +p for reloads.