Range Report

[quickdtoo]

Made another range trip today, it started out cloudy with the threat of rain, set my chrono up and posted targets, no sooner than getting back to the bench the rain started, so I covered the chrono to keep the sensors dry, but shot over it anyway.

First was the 460S&W with Hornady 200gr FTX factory ammo, velocity averaged 2867fps when I finally got to use the chrono after the rain stopped at about 11am, the very first group was the best at about 3½-4", but the target was so soggy, I didn't keep it, shot a few more groups just to get the velocity, but wasn't impressed with the accuracy. Later I shot some more of the 250gr SST with 5744, velocity was ~2100fps, but accuracy was still in the 3-4" range. More 460 range trips later,  I may have to give up on them, 240gr XTP-Mags are on the menu next.

The 30-30AI really shines with the 125gr Sierra Prohunter on top of a case full of H322, 3-shot average velocity was 2865fps and the accuracy speaks for itself, pretty good for a hand reamed chamber!!




The 38-55 did Ok with the .380" Cheycast Snovers that I gas checked, but nothing outstanding, dunno if my home grown gas checking is the cause, but most groups would throw the third round low and out of the group, the best group was with my max load of RL7 and a little over 1800fps, the first two rounds at ¼" and the third low opening the group to 1¾". The other funny thing was the POI dropped with each succesive .5gr increase in powder instead of climbing!!

Also shot the Optima Elite 243 with factory ammo, it shoots good enough that it and my thumbhole Ultra Varmint are getting reamed to 6mmAI.

Tim

30.5gr


29.5gr

[LaOtto222]

Very good report, thank you for sharing. That 30-30 AI looks wicked

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

WOW! That 30-30AI must have put a big ol' smile on your face Tim. Good job!


Bill

[quickdtoo]

Yes, it did, the groups up to that point showed promise at ~1", but they just weren't quite there yet, but it could have been shooter error too, the fella next to me was shooting fast fire with an M1 Garand, it was hard to time my shots between his, I threw one round clear off the target!!

Thanks,

Tim

[dpe.ahoy]

Like the looks of the 30-30AI Tim.  I'm waiting for Wayne to get mine to me, also the 7-30 Waters.  DP

[quickdtoo]

Thanks, Wayne called me Monday to tell me my 6.5x55 Ultra is done, he's had it since May 2007, he called it a back burner project then, so back burner he forgot about it!! 

Tim

[Swampman]

Do you feel think 460S&W will stretch the frame over a period of time with factory ammo?  How much velocity does the .30-30AI  deliver over the standard .30-30?

[quickdtoo]

No, I don't think the frame will stretch, no one has ever done that with any high pressure chambering, they might flex the internal action tho as happened with the 300WSM I tested, the latch pin specifically I'm pretty sure is the weak point. The case head is only .008" larger than the .270 Winchester, Hodgdon lists it at 63.7kpsi, their 460 S&W data only goes to 57kpsi, so if the 270 works, the 460 should work too. I've not had any frame to barrel gaps after the shot or even a hard release the barrel with the 460, even with max loads of H110.

I dunno with the 125gr bullets, I haven't shot any yet in my 30-30, but 150gr Remington factory ammo averages 2330fps, I have some 125gr NBTs loaded up, but haven't shot them yet. The 150gr Rem ammo runs 300fps slower in the 30-30AI chamber,  one of the three rounds I shot split at the neck, so I don't see any benefit of being able to use factory ammo in an Ackley chamber, other than it can be done if you have to, but certainly isn't optimum, kind of a reduced load.

I'm using 375 Win brass which is considerably thicker than 30-30 brass, so thick that I have to neck turn it so it's not too tight in the chamber neck. 375Win pressures run to 60kpsi or 52kcup compared to 42kcup for the 30-30.

Tim

[Swampman]

I would think the .270 case (for example) would have a lot more surface area to grip the chamber walls, and thus it would have less back thrust.  Keep us posted.  I want a .500 S&W but I'm concerned with excessive back thrust.

[tykempster]

6mm Ackley my favorite! 

We can swap loads like the girls in my class swap notes.

[quickdtoo]

I would think the .270 case (for example) would have a lot more surface area to grip the chamber walls, and thus it would have less back thrust.  Keep us posted.  I want a .500 S&W but I'm concerned with excessive back thrust.

Straight walled cases have less bolt thrust compared to bottle necked cases, there's just as much pressure on the case walls as there is on the internal case head area, so the rearward thrust isn't as significant as a bottle necked cartridge with a shoulder. That's why 30-30 brass works well in the 375Win, read Marshall Stanton's reply #4 in the thread below.

I think the excessive back thrust to worry about with the 500 is that at the recoil pad!!!! I wouldn't worry about the 500 Handi if you really want one, even tho some have had problems with the barrel loosening up, so have other chamberings, JPH45 shot his 38-55 loose.....in 2500 rounds!! But many 500 owners haven't had any trouble. If it gets loose, send it in for replacement just as others have. 

Tim

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2137&highlight=.375+win

[LaOtto222]

I can not wait for your range report on that 6.5X55.

[canon6]

Tim, really great shooting and I love that 30-30AI.I have used the 125gr HP Sierra, but have gone to the 130gr Speer.Much higher BC,119 for the Sierra and 248 for the Speer.Like you I have gione to H322 for my short barrel 30-30 and I am getting very good groups and velocxities out of the combination.I am at 37.5 grains and velocities in the 2660 range.

With a 3.2 inch high zero I am 8.6 inches low at 300.

But this load will only be good for small game as the magic 1000 ft pounds of energy is not attainable. I am only getting 852.6.

Gosh I wish we had the old unarmored game animals again lol   Doug

[quickdtoo]

Doug, I think you're referring to the 125gr HPFN that's made for the 30-30, this is the 125gr SPT which is a spitzer with a BC from .264 to .279 depending on the velocity, it's also a well constructed bullet, I've read many reviews on it being used in the 308 and 30-06 working at 3000fps muzzle velocity with pass throughs on lung shots on deer. A friend that was at the range yesterday has used the same bullet in his 308 on mulies, the only bullet he's ever recovered entered thru the ribs and stopped on  offside shoulder after going thru the shoulder blade and stopping under the hide on the opposite side intact, but mushroomed nicely, range was less than 100yds.

In my case, since it's so darned accurate and has a proven track record, I can't see trying to fix what ain't broke!! I know it's not doing anything that a 308 or 30-06 can't do, but where's the fun in that, I've killed way too many deer and elk with them, need to try something different for a change, but I may have to go out of state to do it, I'm too old to live long enough to achieve my goal of taking and animal with every big game Handi I own!! The numbers below are calculated with Sierra Inf software, but the numbers show it should be good on deer farther than I should shoot them!!

Thanks,

Tim

http://sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&stock_num=2120&bullettype=0

Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. 125 gr. SPT at 2865 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.279   0.277   0.264   0.264   0.264
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2800   2000   2000   2000
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 500 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2865.0   2277.9   1.59   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2782.6   2148.7   1.54   -0.13   -0.2   0.0   0.026562562
50   2701.3   2025.0   1.50   -0.55   0.82   0.0   0.053918514
75   2621.5   1907.1   1.45   -1.26   1.55   0.0   0.082102499
100   2543.1   1794.8   1.41   -2.29   1.95   0.0   0.111149782
125   2466.1   1687.7   1.37   -3.66   2.02   0.0   0.141098042
150   2390.3   1585.6   1.33   -5.38   1.74   0.0   0.171988935
175   2315.9   1488.4   1.29   -7.48   1.07   0.0   0.203865827
200   2242.8   1395.9   1.24   -9.99   0.0   0.0   0.236774398
225   2171.0   1307.9   1.20   -12.93   -1.5   0.0   0.270763907
250   2100.4   1224.3   1.17   -16.33   -3.47   0.0   0.305886865
275   2031.2   1144.9   1.13   -20.22   -5.92   0.0   0.342198432
300   1961.6   1067.8   1.09   -24.64   -8.91   0.0   0.379765048

[canon6]

Tim, as usual you are  right, I misread the bullet .I have use the 125 spt in a 30-30 Contender, back in the 90's and it is a real killer on mulies.  Take  are pard.    Doug