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Offline petemi

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.17-250????
« on: August 28, 2008, 02:01:48 AM »
Does a .17-250 exist, or could the cartridge be made.  If so, could it be built on a Handi frame??  Curious. 
The disease is proving to be incurable.  Thanks, Pete
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Offline tykempster

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 02:24:15 AM »
Your barrel wouldn't last long, but I guess you could. :o

25 grainers nearing 4500 fps if I had to guess.
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Offline petemi

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 02:30:52 AM »
Quote from: tykempster on August 28, 2008, 02:24:15 AM
Your barrel wouldn't last long, but I guess you could. :o

25 grainers nearing 4500 fps if I had to guess.

I'm sure you're correct, but could you load them down to 36 or 3800 fps?
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The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 02:54:18 AM »
I am assuming your thinking of the 250 Savage case? That would be a SEROIUS overbore and wouldn't make much sence to me.

 221 Fireball or 223 case would be closer to right, ala about the 204's capacity.
 
You thinking of creating your own? If so, here is a story for ya!! http://www.6mmbr.com/17wildcats.html

CW
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Offline petemi

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 02:58:50 AM »
No, I was thinking of the .22-250 necked down to .17
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Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 03:07:47 AM »
I thought the overbore on the .223 WSSM I had was bad ;)  I agree with the above statements that the bbl life would suck... One of those calibers where about the time the bbl is broken in, the throat will be gone... Another problem to ponder will be getting the correct twist rate on a bbl that wont over-stabilize the bullet and make it keyhole or fly apart... If I were going to do a .17 centerfire wildcat, I'd most likely do a .17 hornet AI.  You have to fireform the brass, but good lord its cheap to load!
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Offline petemi

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 03:35:34 AM »
Quote from: Singleshotsam on August 28, 2008, 03:07:47 AM
I thought the overbore on the .223 WSSM I had was bad ;)  I agree with the above statements that the bbl life would suck... One of those calibers where about the time the bbl is broken in, the throat will be gone... Another problem to ponder will be getting the correct twist rate on a bbl that wont over-stabilize the bullet and make it keyhole or fly apart... If I were going to do a .17 centerfire wildcat, I'd most likely do a .17 hornet AI.  You have to fireform the brass, but good lord its cheap to load!

Thanks Sam, I appreciate the info.  Pete
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Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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Offline Tencubed

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 04:59:41 AM »
The 17/22-250 has been done already.  Called the "Flintstone Super Eyebunger" you can find the info on it in P. O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, Volume 2.

Short bit of information given says it's way overbore, obviously, and that the 25 grain bullet would penetrate 1/2" inch of mild steel at 4500 FPS.  Tests were done with a 24" Barrel and loads listed top out at 4444 FPS.  Some of which, it's stated, would be too hot for other rifles.

Same volume gives velocity readings up to 4187 FPS using the same bullet and the 17/223 Remington Magnum case.

Hard to come up with something new on a case thats been out for more than about 24 hours it seems.  :) :) :)

Mike
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 05:14:13 AM »
Here's the 17/22-250 info from AmmoGuide which mirrors Mike's info, the only load listed is the 25gr bullet with 38gr IMR4350 @4444fps from a 22" barrel, start load is 36gr. For a Handi, using a .17hmr/M2 rimfire barrel wouldn't be wise since they're 1137 mild steel which I would imagine wouldn't last long at all, but they have been used for other milder .17 chamberings like the .17 Rem and .17 Ackley Hornet.
 
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=490

Tim

Also called tha .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger (perhaps the most colorful of wildcat names), the .17/22-250 is the largest capacity .17-caliber wildcat cartridge developed by P. O. Ackley.

Based on the .22-250 Remington, itself a large-capacity case for a .22 bore, the .17/22-250 is grossly overbored, resulting in an ineffecient use of powder space. At such an ill-proportioned volume-to-bore ratio, increases in powder charge result in slight increases in performance, usually less than what might be expected.

Nonetheless, top loads exceed 4500 fps and will penetrate 1/2-inch mild steel. This is particularly impressive when one considers that .17 bullets only weigh about 25 grains.

Ackley listed a standard 10" twist for the .17/22-250, with "Special Twists" at 11" and 12".
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 05:27:29 AM »
JFYI - The 22-250 is based on the Savage 250 or 250-3000, so the 17-250 is the Savage 250 necked down to a 17. You could also use a 22-250 case and neck it down from that too. And yes it is a SERIOUS over bore. If you tame it down to 3600 - 3700 fps, then you ae better off getting one of the smaller cases that are all ready established. A Mach IV (17-221) would do 3600-3700 fps with ease and be much more effiecent (less powder) at the same time.
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Offline Tencubed

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 05:41:45 AM »
Mr Ackley had a bit of a sense of humor about names he gave experimental cartridges.  At the risk of creating a bit of "thread drift" here probably one of the more seldom known rounds was the ".22 Eargersplitten Loudenboomer".  This cartridge was developed in an effort to set a world record velocity for the .223 calibre and was simply the 378 Weatherby necked to .223.  No final test results were given but preliminary tests topped out at 4600 FPS.

Mike
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 05:52:35 AM »
My gunsmith had a round on display that's a 50BMG necked to .22 cal, I think it was just a prop, but who knows when someone will actually attemp it!!

Tim
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Offline Bayou Stalker

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 06:17:14 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on August 28, 2008, 05:14:13 AM

Also called tha .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger (perhaps the most colorful of wildcat names), the .17/22-250 is the largest capacity .17-caliber wildcat cartridge developed by P. O. Ackley.

According to Wikipedia: 

One of these experimental cartridges was the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. This humorously named cartridge was developed by Ackley for Bob Hutton of Guns & Ammo magazine, and was intended solely to exceed 5,000 ft/s (1,500 m/s) muzzle velocity. Ackley's loads only managed 4,600 ft/s (1,400 m/s), firing a 50-grain (3.2 g) bullet. Based on a .378 Weatherby Magnum case, the case is impractically overpowered for the bore diameter, and so the cartridge remains a curiosity
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Offline petemi

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 06:24:04 AM »
Thanks everyone.  I guess that question was more than adequately answered.....put that idea away for good!
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Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 08:59:13 AM »
It is a good thing to think out loud. It gives us guys something to talk about :o ;D
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 09:02:21 AM »
Quote from: LaOtto222 on August 28, 2008, 05:27:29 AM
JFYI - The 22-250 is based on the Savage 250 or 250-3000, so the 17-250 is the Savage 250 necked down to a 17. You could also use a 22-250 case and neck it down from that too. And yes it is a SERIOUS over bore. If you tame it down to 3600 - 3700 fps, then you ae better off getting one of the smaller cases that are all ready established. A Mach IV (17-221) would do 3600-3700 fps with ease and be much more effiecent (less powder) at the same time.

 Wow there is some echo in here... ::) ::) ;D

 My thought exactly.

CW
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 10:57:27 AM »
cwlongshot - I thought some people missed the fact that the 22-250 was based on the Savage 250-3000 that you pointed out, so I repeated it to make sure that fact was not lost. ;D ;D ;D I also think the 17 Mach IV is about the most case capacity for a 17 to be efficient and with decent barrel life, sure there is the 17 Remington and others, but I think the 17-221 is just the right balance for the 17. ;) IMHO
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 11:10:59 AM »
Quote
I'm sure you're correct, but could you load them down to 36 or 3800 fps?

Ya sure don't need a .22-250 case for that. The little .17 Fireball off the .221 Fireball case will do that for you. It pushes 20s at 4000 and 25s at 3800 or so. The .17 Remington will easily add another 200-250 fps to that.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 12:06:06 PM »
Quote from: LaOtto222 on August 28, 2008, 10:57:27 AM
cwlongshot - I thought some people missed the fact that the 22-250 was based on the Savage 250-3000 that you pointed out, so I repeated it to make sure that fact was not lost. ;D ;D ;D I also think the 17 Mach IV is about the most case capacity for a 17 to be efficient and with decent barrel life, sure there is the 17 Remington and others, but I think the 17-221 is just the right balance for the 17. ;) IMHO

 Please please.. NO OFFENCE taken, or MEANT!!! Sorry if my comment came off that way, NOT MY INTENT AT ALL. Simply thinking, great minds think alike.  ;D  I also assumed it was common knowledge where the "250" in 22-250 came from. That was my bad.

 Your spot on, with my opinions on the 17 as it pertains to powder capacity as well. You just don't need that much powder to make that little bullet perform.

 (I also must admit, your post was more "understandable" than mine. :-[)

CW
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 01:58:06 PM »
cwlongshot - Peace, there always was ;)
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Offline tykempster

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 02:31:45 PM »
Here's that 22-378 WBY next to some common 22s, a pellet, 22lr, 223, big daddy.
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Offline tykempster

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 02:32:25 PM »
Note that the case has been fired. ;D
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Offline bubbadoyle

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 05:18:55 PM »
Just curious.  What do you guys think of a 22-250 necked down to 204.  Fast twist barrel shooting the heavier .204 bullets.  Anybody hear of this being done before?
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Offline mjbgalt

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 05:26:06 PM »
yeah, .20-250. been done, and is very accurate and fast.

-Matt
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2008, 07:02:25 AM »
First I should say that no-one should ever be embarrassed to ask any questions about anything... There are no stupid questions, only curious minds :)... Secondly, does anyone know the name of the new .20 caliber wildcat that has surpassed the 5000fps mark?  A friend of mine was telling me about it but he's hunting in Kansas right now and i'm not able to contact him... Cell phone reception in Elkhardt lacks just a bit lol...
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Offline bubbadoyle

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2008, 08:02:48 AM »
Not a 20 caliber wildcat but on reloadersnest.com somebody is showing a 22-243 middlestead loaded wit a 30 grain berger at over 5200 fps.
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 08:21:44 AM »
I'll find out... it was a .20 satan or something like that.
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Offline tykempster

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Re: .17-250????
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 09:27:28 AM »
22-250 Ackley will do it with the little bitty Bergers too.
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