My Sako feeds Hornady brass fine, but not Federal.

[Zachary]

Guys, like I said,  I got my Sako 75 Stainless Synthetic in 7mm-08 and I love it.  However, something happened yesterday and I was absolutely dumb-founded :? .

Here's what happened.  The Sako has a detachable magazine (which I love BTW - especially given that it holds 5 shells as opposed to the regular 3 or 4 [although I guess it really doesn't matter because I good hunter and shooter only needs one shot]).

Anyway, when I cycle all 5 shells with the Hornady 139 grain Light Magnum shells, the action is as smooth as butter.  

However, when I tried to cycle Federal Premium 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, the bolt just wouldn't turn to enclose the cartridge into the barrel. :roll:  It's like the ammo was stuck in the gun or something.  You can't imagine how surprised I was.

Then, I tried to cycle Federal Premium 140 grain Nosler PARTITIONS.  Guess what?  The bolt would turn and close, but it required much more effort than with the Hornady ammo.

Then I went back to the Federal ammo with the Ballistic Tips and I used more force to turn the bolt.  Yea, it finally turned, but it just doesn't seem right.

Granted, Federal ammo, whether it uses Nosler Partitions or Nosler Ballistic Tips, or any other bullet for that matter, shouldn't matter because the brass is the same - Federal factory ammo loaded with (I presume) the same factory brass.

I have a Remington BDL SS DM also in 7mm-08 and it cycled ALL of the ammo with no problems.  (Well, actually I shouldn't say that because I have a beef with Remington.  Specifically, many times it doesn't cycle the ammo.  What happens it that you THINK that you have another round in the chamber, but actually the bullet is still in the magazine.  Still, this problem has nothing really to do with the issue at hand.  This post is about why the Sako won't cycle all ammo the same.  Other than that, the Sako cycles all of the Hornady ammo PERFECTLY and it NEVER misses a "catch" of the bullet below.)

Anyway, so what gives with the Hornady vs. Federal cycling problem?  Any ideas?  I need ya'lls help on this one.

Zachary

[longwinters]

My Sako 7MM has no problem with anything I feed it.  If you were reloading I would say that you need to full length resize your brass , cuz it had been shot in another rifle and then just reloaded. or that your cartridges are too long.  But you dont reload . . . hmmm . . . . If you hand feed a cartridge into the chamber, as far forward as it will go,  and then close the bolt do you have the same problem?  I cannot just lay a cartridge in  and then close the bolt.  I have to either feed from the clip or hand feed it into the chamber.  But that does not effect the bolt locking down only the feeding of the cartridge.  Sounds like a question for Gunnut69. :?

long

[gunnut69]

It's very difficult to diagnos feeding problems without being able to handle the rifle but if I had to guess I bet on a tight chamber.  Perhaps not the length but the diameter of the loaded round's neck.  Brass thickness is the least controled dimension on ammunition and can vary a lot from batch to batch let alone from brand to brand.  That's why benchresters commonly sort new cases by weight.. If the brass is thicker inserting a bullet into the neck will cause the neck diameter to be larger..  Mearsure some that function well and some that don't.  You might be able to see where the interference is by using a permanant majic marker to color the brass case, feed it thru the action and note where the marker was removed.  Be sure to clean the marker material out of the rifle...  The remedy is not as easy.  The chamber is probably just on the tight side of the tolerances and may well be a bit more accurate than the average.  Personally I'd just do nothing more than reload using only the Hornaday brass(or brass of similar weight).  If you wish to use other brass, the chamber will need recut or rather simply cleaning up...  A very light pass with a finish reamer would be all that's needed..  Keep us informed as to the outcome.

[Dave in WV]

One thing you could try is use a chamber brush to clean the chamber. It can't hurt anything and may fix the problem. Dave

[Zachary]

I wouldn't think the chamber needs cleaning as it is a brand new in the box rifle, but I guess that sometimes (many times?) rifles have factory lubricants when they come new in the box.  I may give it a try.

However, my thoughts are with gunnut - I too think that the chamber is "tight."  Yes, this may mean that it may be a bit more accurate, but then again what happens if the gun doesn't like hornady bullets but prefers the other bullets that happen to be in Federal brass.

Oh, BTW, I also tried to cycle Winchester factory ammo and it cycled fine (although with a tad bit more force than the Hornady).

I think that I will buy another box of Federal ammo and see what happens.  As gunnut suggests, perhaps the brass varied from batch to batch.

Zachary

[Mikey]

Zach:  if you haven't fired off all those cartridges yet, then try this trick to see if you can spot where the problem is.

Take the cartridges that do not chamber smoothly, the Nosler Partitions, and coat the shoulder, neck and bullet (shank part that portrudes above the case mouth with some shoe die or stain or something that will show wear marks and chamber one or two and then look to see where the case or bullet rubs.  Then do the same with the ones that will only chamber with force, the Nosler Ballistic Tips, and see where they rub on the case or the bullet.

You may have a tight chamber, and if you show wear or burnishing on the case shoulder or case mouth you will know where your problem is and you may have to return the rifle for chamber polishing.  If your cases do not show wear but the bullet shows impact marks on the shank, then that particular bullet loading is the problem.  

There's a bunch of stuff you can do for yourself to show or identify where the problem may be but if the chamber is too tight it may need lapping or polishing.  If the bullet impacts on the rifling and the bolt requires additional force to close it then you may want to have the forcing cone relieved to allow the use of those and longer bullets.  Hope this helps.  Mikey.

[gunnut69]

Zachary
The bullet you use should have little to do with the actions stiffness, unless the bullet's engraving the rifling.  The problem is brass thinkness in the caseneck.  OR a situtation where the ammo that's causing the problem is at the upper limit of the headspace tolerance and the chamber is at the lower end of the headspace tolerance.  If it's a tight necked chamber it can be dealt with by the handloader or sent back to the company to have the chamber 'loosened' up a bit(a good smith could probably take care of it also).  Bullets by and large have very small tolerance ranges, brass has a relatively large tolerance range.  The simplest fix is to handload with brass it functions well with or invest is a Sinclair neck turner.  This device turns(thins) the necks of cases using a mandrel and a micro-adjustable cutter.  If you handload a 100 or so converted cases(turning only has to be done once in the cases lifetime) will be all that's needed..  This would allow the shooter/handloader a bit more control over the fit of loaded round to chamber..  Check with marker to find out where the interference is occurring..just to be sure.

[Mikey]

gunnut:  I would agree with you if Zachary was having the difficulty with two different brands of ammunition but his difficulty is with one brand, the Federal ammo, but using two differnet bullet types - the Nosler Ballistic Tip and the Nosler Partitions.  

To be honest, and in deference, I'm not overly familiar with the shape of the Partition bullet but have handloaded the ballistic tip, which is why I thought the bullet may be impacting on the rifling and making it difficult to close and lock down the bolt.  I had a similar problem with a Remington bolt gun once, which is why I suggested Zach try and see if there was any burnishing or wearing on any particular spots on the case or bullet.  

I think these problems are fascinating when it comes to trying to fix them or figure out where it goes wrong.  Mikey.

[John Traveler]

Hey, Guys!

I don't wanna toss another dead fly into the soup, but all of you DO KNOW that over the last several years Federal has had a checkered history of many ammunition product recalls, right?

Yes.  A brief history:  too much powder.  too little powder.  rimfire cases missing priming compound. head separations.  primer punctures, wrong cartridge packaging, .... and so on.

I'm not bashing Federal in particular, because ANY manufactured product can have quality control "OOPSIES!".

Have you tried chambering the same cartridges in another rifle to see they work?

John

[gunnut69]

Mikey
That would be something to look at but Zackary said he 'couldn't close the bolt with one brand of ammo and it was very stiff closing with the same brand and a different bullet.  All the bullets listed were spitzers with the similar shapes.  If anything the Nosler partitions tend to beefier profiles than the Balistic tips so they should have caused the most problems, they didn't.   I'm betting on a tight neck, but hey!!  I've been wrong before.  That's why I reccommended he mark a case or two and check to see where the interference happens.  That should tell the tale..  Keep us in the loop Zachery----now we really want to know what the problem is...

[Mikey]

gunnut69 and Zachary:  I would love to find out what the problem is.  Zach, as the gunnut said, wouldja keep us in the loop when you finally find out what causes the problem.

I would really hope it is that last dead fly that John Traveler mentioned.  That would sure solve the problem.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Zach.  Mikey.

[Graybeard]

Zachary, just for the record. The chamber and barrel of ALL new guns needs to be cleaned before firing the first shot. ALWAYS!

Now I have no real insight as to why Hornady chambers and Federal doesn't except to rib you a bit and tell ya iffen you'd buy a good Remington instead of those furrin guns you'd not have such troubles.  :-D

I do think the tips to use something to mark the case and see where the interference fit is right on the money as far as telling what's going on. Won't answer the why necessarily but will let you see where the fit problem is. If you have calipers or mic which a reloader would you could do some measuring but baring that a call to Federal is in order I'd say.

GB

[savageT]

Hey Zach!
I know that you don't care to get into reloading just yet, but do you have a friend who might be willing to help you out using micrometers or vernier calipers to measure these different cartridges?  This is got to be very frustrating not being able to research this problem without doing some measurements on the factory cases.  See if you can locate some mics and get back to us.


Jim

[Zachary]

Now I have no real insight as to why Hornady chambers and Federal doesn't except to rib you a bit and tell ya iffen you'd buy a good Remington instead of those furrin guns you'd not have such troubles.  :-D

GB

Yea, I knew that you were gonna get your hayday in here somewhere GB.   Remember, I own more Remington rifles than any other make.  In fact, I own a 7mm-08 in Remington BDL SS DM and no, it doesn't have the same problems as my Sako.

Guys, I AM frustrated.  A $1,000 gun should have these problems.  Is it the ammo?  Well, like I said, my Remington BDL SS has no problem with the Federal brass.  I think that the "tolerance level" argument is probably right.

I wish that I had a friend that reloads to check and compare the brass.  Unfortunately, I don't know anyone here in Miami.  :cry:    I sure wish that I lived close to you guys. :grin:

GB, I know that you should never shoot a new gun without cleaning it, but I haven't even shot it.  I just can't cycle the Federal ammo in it.  But yes, I will certainly clean it before I shoot it (or any of my other NIB rifles.)

I like the suggestion about the marker on the brass, but I'm concerned that it may mark-up (no pun intended) the inside chamber and then I won't be able to clean it.

Guys, you have all been very supportive and I very much appreciate it.  I'll let you guys know what happens as soon as I decide what exactly to do.  I'm just so frustrated right now that I don't want to think about it for a while.

Zachary

[Mikey]

Zach:  a magic marker will do.  Clean your chamber well and then degrease it with an alcohol swab or something similar.  Degrease a couple of sample rounds from each box of ammo you have, including the Horaday that chambers easily.  

Mark up some samples with the magic marker, or something similar that will show wear/burnishing but not leave residue in the chamber.  Try each brand separately and clean and dry the chamber with alcohol after each chambering, even if the cases/bullets don't show any wear.  You should be able to see some indication of where it rubs.  You may want to use a light colored marker pen or something that will show wear easily.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Dave in WV]

Zachary, get a 50 cal. bore brush and scrub out the chamber. Next use a 7mm bore brush and clean the barrel. This will get the area of the case body and neck. Use a 45cal. mop with carb and choke cleaner to wipe out the chamber. Look through the barrel with the bolt removed and make sure there is no lint in the chamber or barrel. If there is a gun store around that caters to military high power shooters they should have a Garand chamber brush. These are a rachet type and would work well. One for a M14/M1A would be a little short for your rifle. Dave

[gunnut69]

Any good nitro solvent will remove any of the marker residue left in the chamber/neck area..  Use the marker labeled 'permanent' as they leave a little tougher film and it is also a bit thinner.  You may try a machine shop.  Just let them know what your problem is.  There shouldn't be a charge for something that small.  Or perhaps a local gunshop or local gunsmith??