Author Topic: 223 Ultra Range Day Disappointment...Update! (Read 1851 times)

ShooterSATX · « **on:** July 28, 2008, 05:44:49 AM »

First post here...this site is a Godsend!

I picked up an Ultra 2 in .223 last week at Sportsman's here in San Antonio ($313 after Military discount), and took it to the range yesterday. I removed the scope rail and re-installed it with some Lock Tite. I did the same for the rings and mounted a BSA 6-24 by 40 on it. I have had great luck with these BSA Scopes (I have the Sweet 17 and Sweet 243 already).

I bought a couple of boxes of the cheap stuff (Remmi UMC 55gn, mc) just to see how she performed right out of the box. Fired 1 round, made adjustments, fired round 2, made adjustments, fired round 3 and found the center of the bull. I guess I should preface this; I was shooting at 100yds with a sandbag rest. I felt pretty confident finding the bull in three rounds...THEN. I cleaned the bore and fired another shot...wayoff. I fired another shot, way off the other direction. I am not going to bore you to tears with the heartache I was feeling. After several small groups followed by some more brushing of the bore, this pattern continued...needless to say, I have no faith in taking this thing out to the Ranch yet.

After firing one round, the barrel was full of so much crap...is this an ammo issue? The pattern also continued with some Hornady 70gn hp ammo. Do I need to find better ammo (cleaner), wait a few more boxes, or start learning to throw rocks with more accuracy? Also, this pattern was repeated with two other shooters. After they would fire 3 rounds, the response was the same; 'WTH?"

I bought this rifle to break my kids in to hunting so they could work up to the recoil of my other rifles (.243, .270, .30-30, .44 Mag) I figured they could practice by shooting the little critters that frequent the corn...field mice and such.

Any advice is welcome. Thank you!

xsilver03x · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2008, 06:19:21 AM »

I have yet too use the UMC loads I stick with the Winchester 45 grain green and white box. I have heard that the UMC is cheap loads. I did have some problems with mine the first few times out but this last time at the range I was cutting holes one after the other and said that is alright, put it in its sack and went to the house. I did notice that if I used a vice it would make the gun go crazy so I used bags and it really helped. I am not sure of the twist in the Ultra but I do know that my 223 loves the lighter loads and if it shoots like that all of the time I too will love them.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2008, 06:34:05 AM »

Welcome aboard ShooterSATX! As you can see, I split your post off the original thread you posted to, you deserve you own thread rather than being included the other thread.

Since you just bought the rifle new from Sportsmans, it's likely a late model with the 1:9" twist. Most 1:9" 223s shoot the 50-65gr bullets best, some have had good luck with up to 75gr, but many haven't, so it's just a matter of finding the factory load that it likes. There are some basics that you need to follow when shooting an H&R, those are listed in the Handi Bascis 101, simple things like not closing the action firmly or not following thru with the trigger pull can result in poor accuracy. Check out the FAQs and Help sticky as well as the Handi Basics 101, then try some different ammo as the previous poster suggested. The Black Hills and Ultramax reman have been good shooters for many here, stay away from milsurp, it's not recommended by H&R and most find it to shoot very poorly. $:-\$

Tim

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2008, 06:49:05 AM »

Shooter

A couple things , 1 - Welcome to the wild world of Handi's , First thing I would do is NOT clean it so much , I've found that most H&R's do better with a slightly fouled barrel , 2 - avoid the cheap ammo , Wolf is real bad .

Next make sure that you don't get any powder solvent or other lubes on the latch or shelf , this will effect lock-up and cause erratic groups , you will find that a good bore polishing will save quite a few break-in rounds .

Mine took about a 100 rounds to get were I wanted it with out the bore polishing if that tells you anything .

stimpy

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2008, 06:53:03 AM »

I'm sorry for posting this thread elsewhere...as I hit the send button I realized that I might be high-jacking another thread...thanks for moving it.

Before I even posted, I read the 101 section. I had researched the rifle before I bought it and knew that the HX prefix in the serial number identified it as a Marlin barrel with the 1:9 twist. So, I decided to try the 55grn first.

I will head the valuable information in the 101 section when I head back out in a couple of weeks. Only this time I will take a variety of ammunition (avoiding the cheap stuff again).

Thank you for the replies...keep em coming. I truly want to work this out and really enjoy this rifle. How often should I be cleaning the barrel between rounds now that I have 40 rds through the pipes?

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2008, 07:05:20 AM »

Shooter

If the bore is clean now I would put 2 or 3 fouling shots down range before trying for a group , then let the barrel tell you when its time to clean .

I put 102 rounds down mine Saturday with out the first patch , the new barrels do tend to have a slightly ruffer bore which will grab the crud more than normal .

stimpy

chutesnreloads · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2008, 01:35:32 PM »

This should make you feel better SATX.I have a Savage 10fp in .223 that is a tackdriver.The remington umc ammo groups out of it about like I can throw rocks too.Now I think about it...no factory fmj load has shot particularly well out of it.Shoot up what you have and save the brass,then try different ammo.

ECV Slick · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2008, 09:57:58 PM »

Definitely try some different ammo like some Black Hills 52gr Match. Expect to put at least a 100 - 200 rounds downrange before groups tightedn up. That's a normal break-in.

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2008, 02:12:34 AM »

Again, this place is a Godsend...thanks guys!

I have read my eyes shut on this forum over the last couple of days. I ordered 100 rounds of Black Hills V-Max 60gr online yesterday and plan on keeping it safe until I shoot at least 150 rounds through this rifle.

I will be going out to the range again next Saturday (this weekend I need to go to the ranch and do some work around the roads). I will go and get some of the mid-grade stuff and shoot myself blind next weekend.

I will definately keep you all updated. But, as I said, I need to get the ranch in hunting order...the wife is itching to get her first deer and Bobcat this season...darn the luck if we have to trap a few hogs along the way too.

Thanks again y'all!

Datil · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:33:49 AM »

ShooterSATx, 1st Welcome here with all the other Handi-Holics.
Those Damn hogs can run you crazy.
I have never had any good groups with any FMJ bullts Factory or releads.
I will not load or shoot them any more Just my 2 cents.

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2008, 06:37:44 AM »

When I bought my .223 Handi, I also bought a case of UMC 55gr FMJ. They group so badly I have my son practice his technique with them to harvest the brass for me. Using 40gr VMax handloads, I can get sub MOA. These rifles are usually adequate out of the box, but if you want to get better accuracy, you have to have the time and patience to tweak the rifle and the loads. I consider it my Golf. I can't justify the time spent any other way. Best of Luck.

CW

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:41:22 PM »

Thanks for the welcome...again, I love this place!

I have been down this road before with the .243 Mossberg I bought my wife...once I found the right load, she (my wife) shoots 3/4-inch groups at 100yds...not bad for a rookie. But, then again, she hasn't had the time to develop any bad habits.

I will stick with this thing until I get it figured out. I am sure I will post many more questions, frustrations and (hopefully) success stories.

I will keep y'all up to date. Take care of you.

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2008, 09:12:27 AM »

Okay guys, round 2 with the Ultra:

I took some Federal 55gr (100pk from Wal-Mart) and some Black Hills 60gr V-Max along with some Hornady 75gr Match HP...her goes.

After the first 20 rounds I noticed the groups starting to narrow. I fired several 3-shot groups with the 55gr and it did pretty well. After 40 rounds I tried the Black Hills 60 gr...6-shot group was about 1 1/2 inches. The Hornady was a little tighter (6-shot). I don't believe the barrel if broke in completely...yet. I figure one more trip and 40 more cleaner rounds through the barrel and she should be right where I KNOW she can be.

I did manage one 3-shot group that was so tight I would guess it is about 1/4 inch center-to-center...I was impressed! That is why I noted above the I know she can do a little better.

I must note that I let the barrel cool down about every 5 shots. I did run a bore snake down the barrel every 20 rounds or so (no cleaner) to remove any build up.

So overall, I am very pleased with my decision. I am going to start reloading my own pretty soon (thanks again PowPow) so I am sure that the quarter-inch groups should be the norm.

If it was for the folks here who replied and PM'd me, I would have probably sold or traded this gun off. Thank you all!!!

chip-don · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2008, 12:42:21 PM »

frist you reload than you will need another gun

and ;Dand

welcome

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2008, 04:35:27 AM »

Here's a picture of my first key-hole (mentioned earlier) with this rifle...I can't imagine how well she'll shoot after she is completely broke in!

Cheers!

Shooter

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2008, 04:58:37 AM »

Welcome aboard and thank you for your service I apprieciate it. You look to be on the right track and have seen what it is capable of and it will only get better. Thanks Kurt

MSP Ret · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:01:44 AM »

I am a little late but welcome aboard ShooterSATX. These little guns can shoot and you have the best there in a fine little .223. Of all my H&R's, I have a .223 that is one of the most accurate hunting rifles I have ever owned. If all others go, that one will stay...have fun and stay safe....<><<....

tykempster · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:09:11 AM »

You could try the Tubb's Final Finish bullets. I've heard good things about them in rough barrels, but haven't tried them.

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:22:15 AM »

Thank you all for the welcome. It was my pleasure to have served my 20 years...no thanks needed but appreciated. I guess I can't seem to function without the Military. Before I was even officially retired, I took a job as a Contractor for the Army. I think I deploy more now then I did on active duty. I love this Country, our soldiers and everything the Red, White and Blue stands for...no better place on earth to be!

Take care of you and yours...we got the rest!

GPR125 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2008, 03:18:25 PM »

Being around Ft Sam, would that indicate a 91 series trooper? Spent most of my time with US in Texas, a couple of time through SA. Wish I'd have know how many wild pigs there are around there. Guess I spent too much time fishing. Welcome to this wild knowledge base. The 223 is pretty accurate and fairly easy to load. I've usually had the best luck with 55 grainers. Powders are more personally choice and what the barrel tells you. I have found decent loads with Varget, as its very nonsensitive to temperature. keep it in the 3100-3200 range and things should work well. I prefer Hornady SXSP, but watch them if you have a young barrel. Their V-Max and Nosler Ballistic Tips work, but watch for ricochets Good luck and enjoy the BBQ

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #20 on:** September 02, 2008, 09:44:11 AM »

I know this is a late reply, but Black Hills Match 68gr, seemed to shoot excessively well out our AR15's w/ 1-9 twist bbls... I think its about 30-35 bucks per 50 rounds.

ShooterSATX · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2008, 04:43:21 AM »

Another update:

I took the advise of a member here (PowPow) and decided to try my hand at reloading. He gave a good recipe for a hunting round. Having a pretty good understanding (now) of ammo, ballistics, trajectory and twist rate, I know not to expect match grade groups out of a soft point hunting bullet...about 2MOA is what I have read.

I loaded up some 65gr Sierra GameKings (recommended for a twist rate of 1:10 or faster) with 24gr Varget. I took her out to the Range Friday afternoon (with Hurricane Ike's winds starting to introduce himself). The winds were about 10-15 mph...I figured it would be mild enough to give me an idea on how this load performed.

I had made the mistake of giving the Handi a good cleaning after my last time at the Range so I put about 7 or so fouling rounds through the barrel. I let it cool a bit and fired three of my Varget-powered gameKings. With the winds I still punched a .775-inch group at 100 yds...yeah, I like this load! I only loaded a few (in case it didn't work out). Now I will load up a box or so and get ready for 1 Nov...I want an Axis Deer. I figure I am a good enough shot to put them where I want them.

Thanks for all who chimed in and all the advice offered...specially PowPow!

Shooter.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2008, 05:12:03 AM »

I really like Varget. I've used it in a number of calibers with great results.

jmayton · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2008, 05:28:43 AM »

I love the GameKings. I have the older 1:12 barrel, so I shoot 55s pushed by 20.9grs of H4198. I've gotten .75" groups out of it so far. Just loaded up some match loads with the GameKings and then some Sierra HPBTs at different seating depths. Weighed the brass and each charge so I'm waiting for a good day to go try them. Might be this afternoon.

Also, the GameKings are deadly on hogs and deer. Good penetration and great expansion. They hit harder than you would think. And they've worked great out of my 1:12 Handi and my 1:7 M4. Best of luck.

towpro · « **Reply #24 on:** September 15, 2008, 05:31:03 AM »

I have a new 22-250 barrel that is just starting to break-in after 150 jacketed rounds.

I only had paper hanging out at 100 meters, around 1" group. But I would hit the steel turkeys at 400 yards 100% of the time in a 10mph wind.