? about short brass (like the 38 in the 357 or 44S in 44M)

[Lee Robinson]

Over time, does the shorter brass alter the cylinder in any negative way since the bullet isn't in the front of the cylinder (as the bullet and bang when fired will be being behind the rim that the brass of a full size cartridge would go up to).

Does this matter OVER TIME should one eventually decide to go back to full length brass later on?

[Mike Britton]

My experience has been with .44 Russian and .44 Special in .44Mag, and SOME experience in .38 Special in.357 Mag.
It takes some judicious cleaning of the chambers, and I didn't find any erosion.
Having said that, almost every book you read on the subject will tell you that LONG TERM use of a short case in a long chamber will result in some erosion.

[Lee Robinson]

Mike,

Did they say if that erosion will result in a decrease in accuracy or have any other negative effect?

[Mike Britton]

I would think that any erosion would have a negative effect on accuracy. IMHO

[Mikey]

Lee: as Mike Britton said, you may find some erosion in the very front of your chambers where the forward edge of your shorter brass stops.  You may find some erosion there but what you most likely will find is lead buildup that will 'short sheet' brass of the proper length unless it is cleaned out.

I have used all the same cartridges Mikle has used in his 44 magnum, the Russian and the Spl, but it was so dang touogh to clean that built-up lead ring out of the chambers so I could use proper length brass that I gave up the process of using shorter brass; far too much of a headache trying to clean-up that lead build up. 

I do nto know if the use of a shorter case that causes erosion in the chambers will affect accuracy.  It certainly would not be good for the gun but I don't know about affecting accuracy.  I have seen some pretty badly pitted chmabers and bores and in some cases that does not appear to have affected accuracy. 

I am much happier using proper length cases.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Mike Britton]

Lee,
Looks like you are being ganged up by two Mikes here, but I have to fall in line with Mikey about lead build up. Getting lead out of a chamber is really a chore. And I believe we do more harm to our guns cleaning them than we do shooting them.
And, like Mikey, I've found it was easier to hand load charges to cater to my particular needs than use shorter brass in most cases.
Consider, and I'm certainly no ballistic expert, the fact that a shorter case adds to the  "leade", or "freebore" that exists in all chambers.
And, my personal experience with my M29 is that it is more accurate, and happier with normal .44 Mag loads. It shoots .44Spl. just fine, but it's most accurate with 22gr. of 2400 under a 200 gr. Keith SWC, for instance. If I lower the charge down to, I think, 15 gr. of 2400,( don't quote me, my loads aren't in front of me now) it shoots well, but not as well as it does with a full house load.
IMHO, it's better to tailor a load to meet your needs than to use a shorter brass. M

[Lee Robinson]

I would rather get beat up then have my gun get beat up...which is why I asked the question. I appreciate straight forward answers.

I can solve this problem with this by simply using an XTP bullet instead of a Keith type bullet.

The gun is a model 97 Freedom Arms in 45 colt. I haven't shot enough rounds to even break the gun in yet so to speak...but before I continued I wanted to ask (as I was having to trim my brass to get the 270 gr keith to fit in the cylinder). I will just use the Hornady XTP in 250 grains and be done with the concern. I can use the 270 gr keith bullets in other light loads and just seat them deeper in the brass I am sure by crimping above the first band in a light load...or I can just sell them and stick with the XTP all the way around. The gun IMO is more important than dealing with trimming the brass to get the full size lead bullets to fit.

[Swampman]

I've shot barrels full of .38 Specials in .357s & .44 Specials in my .44 Magnums with no problems at all.  Just a normal cleaning at the end of the shooting session is all I've ever done.

[SharonAnne]

ICORE competitors routinely shoot 38s in 357 chambers without erosion problems. And they shoot thousands of rounds a year. They DO clean the chambers after each stage though.
What about chamber erosion by 357s? If anything will erode the chamber it will be a steady diet of hot 357s.
With them you do not have the option of loading longer cases to cover up the erosion.
Heck, PPC shooters shoot 10s of thousands of rounds each year with 38s in 357 chambers and I have not heard anyone complain about chamber erosion.

[Graybeard]

If you are shooting an FA97 with their tight tolerances I'd advise against shooting shorter rounds in it. Do as they say and shoot only full length brass in the FA guns. I've shot .38s in .357 magnum S&W for 40 years with no problems.

[Lee Robinson]

Update....

Originally, I trimmed 30 thousands of brass (1.285 down to 1.250") and loaded 270 gr Keith bullet crimped in crimp groove tested over loads of H110. I tested crimp jump by firing the load in the model 97 with a full cylinder of 5 bullets, but only shot 4 of them. With 1 remaining, I then reloaded the cylinder with 4 more rounds...and fired these 4. After a total of 8 shots I measured my total crimp jump and despite the gun being the "light" 97 version, I only had 0.003" of jump after 8 rounds fired. As a result, I could get it to fit with about 0.015+" of clearance by only trimming 20 thousands off should I wish to. I would think that would be pretty minor being the difference in brass for a 44 spl and a 44 mag is 0.125"

I also chronographed the loads and with 22 grains I got right at 1200 fps.

HOWEVER, I went and purchased a stainless Ruger Bisley in 45...so I can now shoot both the FA with the hornady and the Bisley with the keith and don't have to bother with trimming the brass at all should I not want to...although after thinking about it I really don't think 0.020" would be a concern as the bullet would still be in the throat of the cylinder.