38-56 jacketed bullet reloading

[talon]

Can anyone tell me where to find reloading data for the 38-56 Win which lists jacketed bullets with smokeless powders? I have the single one listed in Barnes 'Cartridges of the World'. I'm interested specifically in data for 245-265 grain bullets.

[jhm]

Talon:  Cartridges of the world show a 265 gr leadf load ofIMR 4198 25 gr. vel. of 1600 energy of 1512 the other load is for a 255 lead also and it is 36 gr. of IMR 3031 vel. 1830 energy of 1908 but I cant locate anything else.   JIM

[Blackhawk44]

Might check backissues of Handloader and Rifle.  Either Brian Pearce or Mike Venturino had an article about cartridges based on the 45/70 which covered the 38-56, 33 Winchester and more.

[86er]

The first thing you must do is slug the bore of your gun to determine the true diameter. I've been loading this caliber for several years and have yet to find a jacketed bullet that works in my 1886 Winchesters. Even though these guns were made 12 yrs apart, the bore diameters are too large for standard .375 bullets. Your gun will perform much better with the use of proper diameter LBTs. One of mine likes .378s, the other .380s. Keep us up to date on any results you may find.
     Best regards, Mike

[talon]

86er, Blackhawk44, and JHM:  Much thanks for your guidance. A person I know has quite a few .377d 255gn jacketed bullets that he currently uses in his 38-55 SS. He asked me if they were usable in a Win '86 38-56 that was being delivered last week. I looked and looked thru all the material I had and couldn't find a thing except for the Barne's listing. If it were me, I'd stick with lead. At the velocities this round is held at, Whitetails, and especially paper, won't know the difference. But, we're still looking for a jacketed load. I have no access to 'Handloader' or 'Rifle'; have all the old issues of 'Rifleman' (since 1939). Will wade thru those... that may take a while.

[Blackhawk44]

FOUND IT!  Here you go- from The Legacy of Lever Guns, Winchester 1886 by Dave Scovill.  " The 38-56 can, for all practical purposes, be treated as a 38-55.  The only difference is the 38-56 takes from two to three grains more powder to effectively duplicate velocitite and pressures produced by the 38-55.  It's that simple.  But, again, as with the 38-55, groove diameters in a 38-56 barrel can vary from .377 to .382."  He later says his barrel was oversize at .381 and gave up on jacketed bullets.

Something to play with, his example of loads.  For jacketed, back up a few grains and work up.

cast 274 gr RCBS 37-250
   powder      charge         velocity
 
   H4198              27.6            1547
   XMR2495          33.4            1452
   H4895              34.0            1671
   XMR2015          29.4            1498
   RL 15               34.5            1570
   RL 7                 24.0            1385
   RL 7                 26.0            1415
   RL 7                 30.0            1619
   H4895              31.0            1377

 220 gr Barnes RN .375"

   RL 7                 34.0            1750

Hope this helps.  Use extreme caution.  I've tried to rechk my tie pin and spel in but realize this is sent by some unknown idjot wit week eyes goin nuts on a funni typ riter.

[talon]

Mucho thanks, Blackhawk!!! Your weak eyes undoubtedly came from doing the leg work for me. This will mean a lot to the fellow who was looking for such guidance. Whelen, Sharp, all the old experts just skipped over this cartridge that just barely squeeked into the smokeless world.

[Blackhawk44]

Es'ta bueno. Blackhawk.