Author Topic: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?  (Read 1768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline teddy12b

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3078
I got thinking about this today (deer season is starting to creep into my mind) and figured many of you know much more about it than I do.  I’ll try to keep it fairly simple

I have the “Primos® "THE CAN®" Family Pak”  and I’m sure I’m not the only guy who bought one of the three packs. 

Are these cans only to be used in the rut?

Are these cans only to be used to call in bucks? 


As far as Grunts go, should you only use them in the rut?

Do they only call in bucks?


Are rattle bags/rattling antlers only to be used in the rut?

Do they only attract bucks?
When’s the best time to use this stuff?


What can you use to attract or call in the does?  Dinner, movie, potential for taking half of your stuff? 

I remember an old hunter told me once to leave all that junk at home and to just sit there and be patient.  Unfortunately, like any other over anxious sucker I bought all this junk over the years and don’t know if I’m using it right or not.  Any suggestions?

Offline backstrap

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 12:09:18 PM »
Hunt where u know there are does at and leave the junk at home. i have some of that stuff tryied it didnt seem to work for me but that might be where i hunt. i think all a buck has on his mine in rut is well u know what and dont pay any attion to the calls and i dont think u can call a doe in useing a blet or i havent any way and i have tried. if u see a buck say out there a 500 yards and there is a hot doe around YOU r not going to call him in off her . the deer i harvest evey year is taken behind a hot doe or real close to her or on her trail where she has came through no calls used. but i hunt in small pasture with big open wheat and alfalfa feilds around , all that junk might work in the DEEP WOODS
1 shot 1 kill

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4537
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 09:55:18 PM »
I have tried a grunt tube (without success), scent bottles and strips (with limited success), and just plain old fashioned sitting, waiting, and watching.  I have had far better success (100 to 0) using silence, patience, and perseverence.

Offline teddy12b

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3078
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 01:33:10 AM »
Sounds good to me.  I'll quit carrying all the junk with me.

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4537
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 02:21:15 PM »
Teddy, I wouldn't go cold turkey.  Carry some of it in your day pack.  There may a day to slip it out and bleat or grunt a time or two.  I still carry my grunt, pull it out from time to time, and make a call or two.  I wouldn't doubt that one of these days a biggun is going to slip up one me about then and I'll get caught with my hand in the cookie jar.  Know what I mean?

I see them used on hunting shows all of the time.  Same for rattles.  I am certain that the show hunts are in areas where the deer are thick as ticks on a dog and the rut is in high gear. 

Where I hunt the deer are not very thick, the rut can be any month of the year (Florida) with a spike in rutting activity from late October to early November.  Ccatching a deer slipping through the thicket by being silent is preferred to spooking them by grunting. 

When I grunt I get the feeling that I am disturbing the silence.  That is never the right frame of mind to be in when hunting a prey as astute as deer.

Offline 2slow

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 06:01:55 AM »
From what I have seen, it is very important to read / find the signs of the deer in the woods (scrapes, rubs, and trails) and then hunt those.  If you are able to scout areas to hunt you can get an idea of when the deer are moving through an area and what time they are doing it.  Set up close to those spots well in advance of when you are seeing activity and just sit and wait.  Also need to pay attention to the wind.

Right at two months from opening day bow season here in Ohio.  I can't wait!

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 06:18:06 AM »
I like the can, and I have had results using it.  Twice it has brought bucks out of woods towards me to investigate.  It's not very loud and it doesn't carry very far, but I won't take it out of my pack.  It's not very big anyway.

I carry around a grunt tube that i've never had much use for.  I'm not especially good at using it and I haven't spent enough time experimenting with it proclaim it effective or not.

I absolutely will not hunt without rattling antlers.  Not only do they bring bucks in regularly, but they tend to bring in the bigger bucks (because the dominate bucks want to know who's fighting in their territory).  I had a rattle bag but it sounded fake so I went back to good old fasioned shed antlers... bigger ones for a good sound... They are a pain to carry but worth it.

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 03:04:36 PM »
Instead of waiting until your back is against the wall so to speak, why not try this stuff out in a "no load" situation.  Take the stuff out in the woods where there are deer, get up in a stand, and see how they react to it. Before hunting season.  Once the dominate bucks start marking off their territories, they'll be interested in any strange bucks coming into their turf but they don't get big by being stupid.  How you use this stuff has a lot to do with it. A friend was going up behind the house and going to rattle up this big buck that had been seen.  I went up about an hour later and he was beating the horns together like clockwork. Clack...clack...clack...clack. Sounded like a machine.
I've never been too much into stuff but I have seen a grunt tube stop a buck that was going thru the woods so you could get a better shot at him. Why he stopped, I don't know?  Maybe a soft whistle would have worked as well.  Altho a buddy and I have used whistle signals back and forth that the deer ignored.  I guess they thought we were birds.
I saw a nice 8 or 10 point this afternoon in a hay meadow.  Still in velvet.  He's probably marking his calender also.  :D

In the FWIW dept: I would not use a set of rattling horns unless there were two of us.  One rattling and one standing.  Around here some of these darling locals have a habit of making what they refer to as "sound shots".  And it's exactly like the name implies. They blaze away thru the brush and then go see what they've killed. 

Offline buck460XVR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 06:46:56 PM »
Over the years I have used both grunt calls and rattled during archery seasons...I learned 40 years ago how to grunt with my mouth,  by watchin' bucks chasin' does and mimicking the sounds they made. For me, in order to successfully call in deer, they have to be undisturbed, they have to be susceptible/be in the mood, the time has to be right and they must already be active. Altho I have called in/rattled in deer that were randomly walking, moving away or ones that were a little uneasy about coming my way,  I have never brought one back that had been spooked by me or something else. Not right away anyway. I have never called/rattled a buck away from a hot doe......but I have called in hot does that brought the buck with them. Altho curiousity plays a small part, most deer I've called/rattled in were deer susceptible because they were already on the prowl, either lookin' for does or marking/defending their territory. This goes along with the timing thingy. Altho the "rut" is what everyone talks about, it's really the "pre-rut" when the bucks are the most vulnerable. Before the does are ready, is when the bucks get stupid. They're horny, lonely and lookin' for a fight. 'ell, I've had bucks in the pre-rut come in to the sound of my climbing treestand, thinkin' it was another buck tearin' up a tree in his territory. I've tapped aluminum arrows together lightly and had bucks run across the swamp in anger looking' for me. But.....once the does kick their fawns away and get friendly, the bucks have their noses so tight to the does butt, they can't see or hear anything......much less are they gonna leave a sure thing. I start rattling right before the bucks start establishing their scrape lines and will continue thru the season. I tend to grunt on sighted deer or later on when the rut gets closer. Once the rut is on I concentrate solely on the does.....by then any buck without one isn't worth the time. I don't rattle or call during the gun season, one for safety and secondly where I gun hunt, by the time shooting light comes, every deer in the woods knows what's going on and any noise will only spook them even worse. I've found that small bucks tend to come in more than big bucks, but I assume it's cause there's more of them , they're more likely to be active during the daylight hours when it's legal to hunt...plus they're just easier to fool. Big bucks aren't active during the daylight hours very much, especially during hunting season. Getting close enough to a bedded deer for them to hear you rattle or call without alerting them is tough.....that's why it helps when they're active and moving. Ironically, I've found that mid-day can be a good time.....as the last coupla bow bucks I got were between 11:00 and 1:00 pm. I have also found that when you're by yourself and  rattlin' horns, you don't have time to dawdle.....you make your series of rattles and then you hang the horns up and get ready. Most bucks that I have rattled in that weren't seen first, came in so fast I barely had time to get my bow.

On public land I start early and try to be more subtle. The deer on public land learn quickly and are exposed to more of it. Here I find less is more. Once scrape lines are established I tend to keep quiet unless I hear another buck (not another hunter)grunting or thrashin' trees. Or if I see that the deer is moving away and the only hope I have is to turn them.......
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 05:20:17 AM »
Good Post, Buck.

With your bow hunting, have you ever used any of the "hot doe" scent??  Back in my young days, the ads said if you put it on your boots, the bucks would follow you to your stands.  All it ever did for me was to make my hands stink so bad I couldn't hardly eat my sandwich. :(  (I was gun hunting)

Offline flintlock

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 05:29:02 AM »
Here are some basics...

Bucks and does use a short bleat to stay in contact with each other...Fawns learn to keep up with their mother this way so a short doe or buck bleat can be effective year round to bring in either a buck or a doe...Your small can simulates this...There are also some mouth products on the market, Lohman makes one that has worked for me during the early season...

When a doe is in heat, she uses a longer almost pleading bleat...This is more of a 2 syllable bleat, that's what the larger cans are for...

Bucks use a longer grunt during the rut...Your buck tube grunt is used for this...This is most effective during the early part of the rut when bucks are looking for hot does...It can bring in both large and small bucks and also the more agressive bucks...

A tactic that has worked for me is to use the can of a doe in estrus about 3-4 times, wait 2-4 minutes and follow up with a longer buck grunt...It's like a doe says "Hey guys, I'm ready, is anyone around"...Then a few minutes later a buck says "I'm here, where did you go?"

Like scents, none of these work all the time, but can sure pull in deer some of the time...

I really like going with some agressive buck grunts during the peak of the rut when you are seeing bucks actively chasing does...Especially if you are near a bedding area like a cutover...Bucks that are bedded will get up and come in to investigate...

I've had 2 occasions where multiple does came into a field to feed and noticed that the hocks were black on one or two does, this means that they are in heat...
I've pulled bucks into the field by doing some agressive grunting that evidently were cruising through the woods trying to scent the does...


Offline TribReady

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 06:07:32 AM »
buck460XVR & flintlock really summed it up well.

Both really indicate the best time to use any calling would be the pre-rut.

I personally do use "blind" calling just to see what may be out there.  I feel the potential benefit outweighs the risk of getting caught.
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline snapcrackpop

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
  • Gender: Male
  • Baloo - blue weim
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 01:23:24 PM »
There is a great explination on bowsite about calling and rattling, go to features and then the bottom of the page in dark red.

Here are the direct links to:
Calling:
http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/deergrunting/index.cfm

Here is one on rattling:
http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/deerrattling/rattle.html
Got:
Handi VP 22/410, 410, 20, 17M2, .223, 357MAX, 50cal ML SS w/MU plug


Offline SDS-GEN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 05:59:13 AM »
I've never had much luck rattling, I don't even carry rattling antlers with me any more.  However I've grunted/bleated in more deer than I can count, bucks and does.  In my opinion can calls are too loud, as are most commercial grunt tubes.  Deer usually aren't very loud when they bleat/grunt.  I've been most successful sneaking in close to a thicket that I suspect holds deer then calling.  I've taught myself how to grunt/bleat with just my voice and often don't carry a grunt tube with me anymore. 

Here's one thing I swear by.  If a deer makes a noise, call back using the same noise the deer made.  I've had almost infalible success doing this.  Ive called in does after they have blown an alarm snort by using an alarm snort of my own a few seconds later.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26944
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 12:36:08 PM »
The buck to doe ratio in most places I have hunted here in Bama runs from about 1:10 to 1:20 or worse. In my entire life I've never seen or heard a pair of bucks fighting or rattling their antlers together. I won't say it hasn't happened in the areas I've hunted but it's rare enough I think the sound of rattling is more likely to run deer off than attract them here.

I do not trust scents at all. I've NEVER in my entire hunting career seen a positive reaction of deer to scents. I don't use them nor the cover up sprays either as I feel the same about them really.

I've used several different bleat cans over the years and am still waiting for the first positive response from a deer to one. I've had a few leave rather quickly afrterward which I think might have been related which would be a negative not positive reaction to them.

Now I do happen to have this one grunt tube I bought 25 or more years ago that has been with me regularly as I've hunted over the years since I've gotten it. I've long since lost count of the number of deer I've had come to me when I used it. My first ever bow kill came as a direct result of it. My largest buck ever taken came as a direct result of use of it. I've had perhaps two or three negative results but I'm sure over a hundred positive reactions from it.

I've had deer look up immediately after I grunt and make a beeline to me like I had them on a string reeling them in. It's brought in bucks and does both. I also have several other grunt calls and not a single one of them has ever not one single time gotten a positive reaction from a doe or buck either when tried. What the magic is in this call I dunno but I sure take good care of it and it goes with me to all deer hunts.

I've not yet ever brought in a deer with it that I couldn't either see or hear however. In other words I've never had a deer come in to blind calling with it and yeah I've tried it hundreds of times. But if I see a deer or hear one moving in the woods out of sight of me and I use that call I have confidence that most every time it will at least come closer to me and most times will come like on a string. No clue why it works as it does and my others don't but I'm sure not arguing with the success I've had with it.



Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline mike65

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2008, 06:05:50 AM »
I appreciate the posts. I can't add anything, but this is why I joined GBO--helpful advice from more experienced folks. I'm new to deer hunting and have seen the articles, ads and sales pitches about grunt calls, rattling antlers, etc., but wasn't sure whether they were worth spending the money on. Seems like experiences vary from place to place and hunter to hunter.

Thanks all. And good hunting!

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 06:43:04 AM »
As GB alluded to above, it has a great deal to do with the place you hunt and how those deer are managed.  Our herd is much more balanced in Kansas and our deer are less pressured.  Thus you would expect rattling and calling to work better.  To some extent you're just going to have to see what works for you. 

Offline buck460XVR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2008, 10:34:01 AM »


With your bow hunting, have you ever used any of the "hot doe" scent??  Back in my young days, the ads said if you put it on your boots, the bucks would follow you to your stands.  All it ever did for me was to make my hands stink so bad I couldn't hardly eat my sandwich. :(  (I was gun hunting)

LOL.......that stuff is nasty when you get it on you. I musta read the same ads you did years ago and had about the same amount of luck. :D

Altho I never had the experience of having the bucks follow me to my stand, I did see the effect of putting scent on your boots one year while hunting a narrows a half mile back in on public land. I used to take the week around the 7th of November off every year to bowhunt the rut. According to the journals I kept, the seventh was the day, when over the years I had seen the most buck activity while hunting. I would hunt from sunup to sundown everyday and would use the "hot doe" scent on my boots as a cover/attractant scent on my half mile hike to this particular stand. One year we had tracking snow and every morning on my way into stand I would see a set of deer tracks following my tracks out the night before. Since I varied my routes I knew it wasn't coincidence, especially when the deer would follow my tracks in circles around the spot where I would park my truck. Never saw the deer, but could tell, altho it was an adult it was not very big. The position of the rear tracks relative to the front hoof prints indicated it was a buck. Nowadays, I never use scent on my person or close to my stand. I have found it just makes it easier for the deer to locate YOU. If and when I use cover/attractant scents I use them a small distance away from me in order to keep the deers attention in a different spot than where I sit in my tree. I have over the years, found keeping a journal of what I experienced in the stand would show me trends or circumstances that proved to be important or critical altho at the time they seemed insignificant. I wish I woulda figured this out sooner in my hunting life.


"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4537
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2008, 03:04:06 PM »
Really good advice about the Journal.  I have kept one for 15 seasons and it has helped me pattern the deer.  Perhaps the deer would have been there anyway, but I like to think I am "gaining" on their intelligence.

Offline Freezer

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2008, 06:14:49 AM »
    You guys are hunting Whitetail, I hunt Coastal Blacktail.  I've tried the toys and can say I've had any results.  We don't get to see too many bucks out here so when their in view I just sit quite.  The one thing I swear by is scent control.  I still hunt and I'm always on the ground.  I use scent blocking soap, detergent and deodorant.  I also use a spray bottle filled with Bay leaf tea made from the local trees as a cover scent.  Every year I have doe walk right past me.  Two years ago it worked too well.  I had a doe try to take the trail mix off my lap and also had a bear pass within ten feet of me.

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4537
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2008, 03:38:49 PM »
You've got stones Freezer.  I grant you that; to sit there and let a bear walk within 10-feet, even if it was going by.  That bear would have smelled me as I would have done what bears do in the woods as I was trying to get H E L L out of there.  I do not like not being on top of the food chain where I hunt.

Offline kernman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 164
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2008, 03:01:22 PM »
Freezer,

I am glad to see you are reading this post. You asked in your post "Let's Talk Blacktails" whether I would be willing to try some of these techniques while scouting. So far, Ive never tried any of them.

It seems the consensus is that grunts work best in most situations. Rattling has a limited time frame, and doesn't work in places where does greatly outnumber bucks, such as where I live in Central California.

I should say that when scouting I almost always bring my dog. Which rules out sitting quietly grunting and waiting for something to show up. But my dog - I always keep him on a leash - has been a big help, as he has busted deer I never would have seen otherwise.

But maybe I'll buy a grunt tube and try it while I'm bowhunting next week.

Recently I spooked a doe that let out a bleat like if you blew hard into a coke bottle. She did this several times.

Has anyone else ever heard this? I would imagine whitetails do the same.

Offline rebAL

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
Re: Can someone explain does bleats, buck grunts, rattle bags, etc.?
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2008, 10:40:06 AM »
I use soft bleats & soft grunts while still-hunting in heavy cover when I get to an openng or to cover any noise I might make to disguise my noise for that of another deer.  All deer grunt & bleat to communicate and I have successsfully called in both doe & bucks with this techniue.  The can call is an example of a bleat but I prefer mouth calls.  You need to be absolutely still when doing this because now the deer will be hunting for YOU, as they can pin-point the source of the call and will make a bee-line to point of call so you need to be ready for head-on shot.