My action won't open. Please help.

[whiffelball]

I just finished installing a Moyer's brass trigger guard and spacer.  "May require fitting."  MAY!  HA!!!!!

[sigh...I KNOW, but I didn't find this forum until afterwards...]

Well, it is a better looking product than before, without the gap between the rear of the guard and the frame.  The spacer has the short ears and a few pits and low spots.  The trigger guard is actually so tight in the back that I had to grind on the rear to get it to fit!  That is why you see a 90 degree cut back there, I got a little zealous.

Now, my action won't open.  The release button doesn't return all the way up like it used to, and no matter how hard I try to press on it, it doesn't move enough to release the barrel.  I've had the forearm off hoping that would help, but no.

Now that's what I call a single shot. 

This is a blue Sidekick.


before


polished, installed, and jammed closed.

[Spanky]

Well at least it looks good!!


Spanky

[quickdtoo]

You'll have to knock the lower pins out to open the action, the latch spring pocket is too shallow, you'll have to either make it deeper, or trim the spring. Been there, done that with mine and just about every frame that I've installed a heavy latch spring on.

Tim

[whiffelball]

Spring problem:  That must be it. 

I had a shorter than factory spring in there at first, and it was difficult to operate.  Then, I put the longer factory spring in there and it wouldn't open.  I thought the longer spring would fix the problem, but it seems to have done the opposite.  Thanks for the quick reply!

[cwlongshot]

If you would, how about some more info on these parts!!

 They look really good, I would like to have some as well!! Where did you get them??

 CW

[whiffelball]

These parts are manufactured by Moyer's Gun Repair.
http://www.moyersgunrepair.com/product_info.php?products_id=45&osCsid=9f556a8019beecbaad3b58edc7a69f70

First of all, there is an old thread about about these when they first came out:
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,125031.0.html

I didn't find that link until after my order was purchased.  I was shocked to find out that these were going to be unfinished parts!  I think the part he shows on his website is a factory plastic H&R part, not one of his reproductions.  That should be false advertising as I see it.  But alas...

Well, they came in the mail and I got out my #2 swiss file, a small dowel rod and some sand paper.  Then I used a Dremel sanding drum in my drill.  Then I got out the needle files.  I finally gave up on this being a fully polished piece because I want to take it into the woods without fear.

The problems I encountered were these:

1. The rear of the guard touched the frame, preventing me from getting the holes for the trigger pin from lining up.  I tried a few things that didn't help, and eventually ground a divot in the middle of the offending piece of the rear of the guard.  After that, the guard would finally line up with the holes in the frame.  One down...

2. The trigger couldn't return far enough for the hammer to cock.  I had to file down the guard at the area just below the trigger return spring.  And the hammer cocks!

3. Just when I thought I was done and had the rifle fully assembled, the action jammed closed.  It turns out this was two problems occurring at the same time.  One problem was that the large hole for the forward facing spring is not deep enough.  I did not trust myself to drill it any deeper without punching through, so I installed a spring about 1/2mm shorter.  It would work, but it was HARD to open.  I took it apart for the millionth time to discover that the part of the action that physically locks up with the barrel was touching the trigger guard.  Sure enough, it was about 1mm taller above the front trigger guard pin hole.  I used a needle file and measured often with a digital caliper to make sure I got just enough off.  Success.

before (click for larger picture)


after (click for larger picture)

4. The forearm spacer.  Where to begin...The top "ears" do not go high enough to be parallel with the frame, nor do they go back far enough to touch the frame at lock-up.  There were many pits and low spots that need to be filled.  I just couldn't file any more of the spacer away to mask the problem.  These ears were also too close to each other, preventing the barrel from fitting in between them.  It heated it up over the stove a little, and tapped on it with a ball peen hammer.  I barely moved it any, but it now TIGHTLY fits the barrel.  I put sandpaper on the frame and rubbed the spacer on it to get things headed in the right direction.  But being brass, it is going to smooth itself out just from working the action.

Here is my opinion.  The gun looks really nice to me.  The trigger guard must have been improved since it first came out because the fit is actually too close, needing final fitting.  I really like it like that.  The two halves of the mold did not line up perfectly on the actual "guard" portion, but the inner parts had good line up of the holes and were fine as far as that goes.  The forearm spacer is still a little rough and could use a date with an old coat hanger and a blow torch.  I may have to set that meeting up...

Here the final assembly (I hope) including the factory ramrod with the paint polished off:

Clickable thumbnails:







In this one you can really see the pits and low spots on the side of the spacer.

[Swampman]

It looks really nice.

[Spanky]

It's too bad that the fit and finish isn't a little better. These parts really add something to the looks of the rifle. Thank you for the great pictures too!!

Just out of curiousity did you get ahold of the guy and tell him about the problems you had with fitting the parts??

If so, how did he respond??



Spanky

[Jimbo47]

Those parts really stand out and make the rifle look really nice.

Please, don't take this wrong, I'm not knocking your work!  I've got experience working with brass so....

From viewing the pictures, it looks like those parts are still plenty thick (notice how the brass spacer extends above the frame, and the trigger guard is still pretty thick) so you could actually take off more to get the pits out.

Brass is really strong, and you can get it pretty thin, and not loose the integrity of the metal.

I ordered an unfinished gunstock, and they left so much extra wood on it, that the first time I finished it, it still looked like a club on the end of the rifle, so I took it off and started hacking away, and got it to look really nice and proportioned to the rifle.

They do that, so you can take off material, and if you make a mistake you can overcome it by just taking off a little more.

Remember the saying and work slow, because you can always take it off, but you can't put it back!

[whiffelball]

Spanky:

No, I did not attempt to contact him about my troubles.  After reading the thread about these when they were first released, it didn't seem as though he appreciated "creative criticism."  I'm sure he got a good look at them before he sent them out, and I'll bet he's fitted one or two of these himself.

I did call to make sure the order was being processed.  At the time, I though no one had heard of these products and that he would be really excited about my order.  He sighed a lot and seemed like he was only reluctantly selling these.  Just the impression that I got.

I'd buy another set in the future.  For my new rimfire that should be done in a month or two, I'll put on a steel set.  Not sure if I'll get stainless or not.  Actually, I think I like the plastic spacers really well, and just prefer the  metal trigger guard.

Jimbo47:

I thought about taking them down a little more.  I think the pictures might make it look better than reality.  I think it would be a little lower than the frame when I would be done, but that may look better than the pits...

[Jimbo47]

My brother runs a brass foundry, and they frequently get customers who come in and want special made parts, and they buy them in bulk amounts to help bring down the cost, while making it profitable for the foundry, so I'm sure this guy did the same, and depending on the work the foundry did, the guy actually has no control over the process, and probably paid for "x" amount of castings, so depending on the quality of work the foundry did, there can be a lot of inferior castings mixed with the good ones, which from the way it sounds, that more than likely weren't passed through any type of quality control process, just going by what you are describing.

So unless the guy is pouring them out in a backyard foundry, you may or may not be able to get all the pits out, but you could luck out on the next ones you order, and hopefully you can get them out, and they aren't all the way through.

Good Luck!

[quickdtoo]

Moyers pours his own stuff using his own crucible, he doesn't farm any work out, so he's in complete control of product quality, and that's the root of the problem, he's not interested in making it better. 

Tim

[Jimbo47]

Moyers pours his own stuff using his own crucible, he doesn't farm any work out, so he's in complete control of product quality, and that's the root of the problem, he's not interested in making it better. 

Tim

Oops!.....Nuff said!

[PHATINJUN]

His sighing may of ment he was in one of his what he called a"Humdums" how many months did you have to wait for your order? Kurt

[Spanky]

Moyers pours his own stuff using his own crucible, he doesn't farm any work out, so he's in complete control of product quality, and that's the root of the problem, he's not interested in making it better. 

Tim

Well that ain't good!!


Spanky

[whiffelball]

From the phone call to my door, it was just 2-3 weeks.