Author Topic: Rifleman or cook?  (Read 821 times)

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Offline scout34

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Rifleman or cook?
« on: August 26, 2008, 03:28:03 PM »
How many of you could put rounds into a 20 inch circle on demand, using a rack grade rifle and surplus ammunition, iron sights and do it without a benchrest or a bipod?  How about 10 rounds into 20" at 500yds in 30 seconds?  That is what your battle rifle was designed to do, and if you can't you aren't getting your money's worth out of your investment.

If Front Site Academy or Thunder Ranch offered these skills to you in a weekend training session, how much would it be worth to you?  $500?  $250?  How about $70?  The Appleseed Project  http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ is coming to a range near you and for not very much money you can get alot of range time and free instruction.  They will teach you natural point of aim, shooting from field positions, use of the sling, and the proud heritage and responsibilities of the American Rifleman.

Women, kids, and active duty military can shoot free!

Some of you may have seen this on other forums, or seen the ads in Shotgun News (the half page ads for Fred's).  This is a great program and I am going to the Appleseed shoot at Knob Creek on the 25th and 26th of October.  Check the web site, chances are there is a shoot within a few hours from you.  This program has grown from a few shoots a year to over a hundred all over the country.

If you are one of those folks that says, "I'm a pretty good shot as it is, what are they gonna teach me?"  Okay.  That may be true, but put your money where your mouth is.  Try out the supplied promo target.  If you smoke it, then post it.  If you can't, don't despair.  There are a bunch of folks at the Appleseed Project that want to make you the best rifleman you can be.  What have you got to lose?

Promo Target Here
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=2680.0

Offline A177

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My recent attempts. . .
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 12:54:02 PM »
Here is just two of the recent attempts I have tried at home.  Believe me, it is challenging and you will want to keep trying!


8-19-2008 (this part I posted over on RFC. . .)

Well, the AM found me in bed, still letting my back relax and I remembered about that groundhog. So, I decided to get up and go sit and wait. Ok, when it comes to hunting, I guess I have little to no patience.  Sitting there for an hour, wondering what I could have been doing (provided I didn't have a flare up) during that time. The groundhog may have come out earlier, so finally I decided I needed to do something. I plucked the new targets I downloaded recently and set up the Do-All Bullet Box and got ready to practice.

Now, I've admitted that I don't really consider myself a "rifleman," by my definition someone who is a good rifle shot, not just a "plinker." So when I came across the target offerings from The Appleseed Project and what it says on the targets you can download and try, I gave it some thought and decided, finally, I'd give it a try. Of course, it got bumped to the back-burner in projects, but I decided to give it a go this morning.

The rifle was my .22 Long Rifle "groundhog gun." It is a Savage Mk II-F bolt-action .22 Long Rifle fed by a 10-round magazine; wears a sling and Daisy 3-9x32mm Powerline scope. I bought this rifle several years ago from Wal-Mart for $99 and change + tax; they sell it now for $117, w/o the Accu-Trigger. It does not have the lovely Accu-Trigger feature, but I certainly do not complain about its trigger either! Originally, I had sighted it in with Winchester 36-grain HPs, but wanted to use the Paco Tool Modified lead round nose bullets, and found it shot well at 50yds with Federal's #510 40-grain High Velocity LRN. This is the same gun with which I shot my last groundhog with, using one of the Federal 510s punched into a full-wadcutter profile.

The "Free Target" was scaled to use at 15yds/15meters/50feet, and simulates targets at 100 yds, 200 yds and 300 yds. They also have one scaled for 10yds. It takes 9 shots, three at each target on the paper. I don't shoot well off-hand (standing), especially with ZERO form of support, so I found my results interesting. I deducted a point from myself on the 200yd sitting (it should have scored "12") based upon my shooting ability - a bit of honest acceptance there. I was expected better of the prone shooting than I did.

On the "Graycoat Targets" I shot the first (largest) standing again, to see what would happen. Through the scope, I could only tell I hit the gray once (believe it or not). On the second "Graycoat Targets" - with the 200, 300, 400 and 500 yard simulators, I aced the 200 and 300 yd fairly easy but the 400 and 500 yd ones was, while not "difficult," perhaps suffering from my poor breathing technique and inability to keep still.  I went after the second page of "Graycoats" at a fairly fast pace, not slowly like I try to do with accuracy testing of rifles. Count up the shots I fired. Nine on the "15yd Free Target." And 15 on the "Graycoat Targets." When I went to pick up my Do-All Bullet Box, the rod came away, leaving the box sitting, so I need to tighten the screws on it again!


Then on 8-22-2008 I decided to give it another go.

Goal :

Test my skill of accuracy with three different rifles at the "Appleseed AQT" target at 25 Meters.

The guns selected were :

A. Ruger 10/22 : Choate Dragunov-styled Stock, Bell & Carlson extended magazine release, Bushnell 4-12x40mm A. O. Sportsman Scope, Uncle Mikes 1" swivels and a Multi-Use Firearm Sling called "Express Sling" from The Outdoor Connection 1"x56".
B. Ruger 10/22 40th Anniversary Carbine : Factory stock, sights and magazine release.  No modifications to the rifle.
C. Savage Mk. II-F Accu-Trigger : Factory stock other than replacing factory rear sight with a Beeman Sport Aperture.
D. Henry H001 Lever Action Rifle : Williams FP-GR Low-line of sight, fingernail polish on front sight.

Ammunition :

Winchester X-Pert 36-grain Lead Hollow Point (weighed)

Targets :

Variety of grid-style site-in (inital sight-in only)
Appleseed "Free Target" for 15M/15Yd/50Ft  ' for score '
Appleseed "GrayCoat" and "RedCoat"  ' for score '

Results :

Bad at the start. . . The Beeman Sport Aperture was too high for the issue front post of the Savage Mk II and resulted in it hitting too high to be usable for this test.  Am considering a Williams FP-GR for Low line of sights and a higher front sight.
   The Ruger 10/22/Bushnell/Choate Dragunov was close enough for work at the 25yd mark on check of sight-in.
   The Ruger 10/22 Factory sights needed some adjustment vertically, did not mess with horizontal.
   The Henry H001 was shooting to the left, but did not adjust any, as it was on the same horizontal plane as the center of the target.

A. Ruger 10/22/Bushnell/Choate Dragunov

Free Target results - ( Overall score of : 25 )
   Standing target (simulated 100yd) : Score of 12.  One each in the 5, 4, 3 zones.  Had adjusted the scope power to 12X to use as a "spotter" for the irons and forgot to reset to 6X before shooting began "for score."
   Sitting target (simulated 200yd) : Score of 5.  One good hit in the 5 zone.  Again, scope was in 12X power range and realized this before moving onto the prone target.
   Prone target (simulated 300yd) : Score of 8.  Two hits in the 4 zone.  Had adjusted the scope back to 6X power before I shot this one.

"Hits Count" GrayCoat Target results -
   Fired from a standing position. On the large 100yd target, I only scored 2 hits of the 3 shots, both in the "head" area.
   For the 200, 300, 400 and 500 yard targets on the second page, I fired from the prone position.  Hit the 200yd target once; the 300yd target once, the 400yard target twice and the 500yd target has all 3 (!) shots within the 1" square!  Go figure!

B. Ruger 10/22 Factory carbine

Free Target Results - ( Overall score of : 22 )
   Standing target (simulated 100yd) : Score of 14.  Two shots "broke the line" and score a "5" while one was in the 4 zone.
   Kneeling target (simulated 200yd) : Score of 4.  Two noticeable misses here.
   Prone target (simulated 300yd) : Score of 4.  One shot just barely "broke the line" while two shots grouped well below the target.

"Hits Count" RedCoat Target results -
   All shots were fired from the prone position after noticing my difficulty shooting offhand with the high-powered scope setting on the 10/22.
   Larger 100yd target, "three for three."
   For the 200yd target "ZERO for three," the 300yd target "ZERO for three," the 400yd target "ZERO for three," and the 500yd target "ZERO for three."  Can we say "Horrible!!"

C. Henry H001 Lever Action

Free Target Results - ( Overall score of : 28 )
   Standing target (simulated 100yd) : Score of 12.  One hit each in the 5, 4, 3 zones.
   Kneeling target (simulated 200yd) : Score of 8.  One clear hit in the 4 with one that "broke the line" just barely to count the higher score.
   Prone target (simulated 300yd) : Score of 8.  One in the 5 and 3 zones.

"Hits Count" RedCoat Target results -
   All shots were fired from the prone position after noticing my difficulty shooting offhand with the high-powered scope setting on the 10/22.
   Larger 100yd target, three hits in the lower portion of the target.
   For the 200yd target "one for three," the 300yd target "one for three," the 400yd target "ZERO for three," and the 500yd target "ZERO for three." 
   Note: The hits on the 400yd and 500yd were low, and damaging to my Do-All Bullet Box!


   Observations :

   I know there is no need to be frustrated by my results today, these are "skills" targets, and for someone who has not been shooting much, and shooting different firearms with different sighting systems it could be considered "good."  I don't like "missed" shots off the paper.  That's why I bought the bullet box trap - to contain the shots.  The targets need to be well-spaced within the box frame to do that, in addition to my controling muzzle and trigger engagment!  The Bullet box gives feedback - the "puff" of lead dust as the bullet hits the backplate!


To save a lot of d/l space, I've uploaded all of the related photos here :

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z157/T191032/Appleseed/?start=all

Offline scout34

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Re: Rifleman or cook?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 03:41:37 PM »
Neat stuff.  I've never seen the redcoat targets before, though I've heard of them.  I've been shooting the AQT and the Quick and Dirty AQT with my M1A at 25 yards.  My last scores were 232 on the AQT and 229 on the QDAQT.  Rifleman!  WooHoo!  Now to shoot a target for record with someone else holding the timer, if you know what I mean.

While I was at the range, a bunch of guys brought thier tricked out carbines and started plinking around and we got to talking.  We ended up having an informal contest; 3 rounds at the ROTC crest at the base of all the targets we were using, about 1/2" square.  They shot off sandbagged benches and missed, I shot prone with a sling and chopped out the target.  Now they want to come to Appleseed.

Offline A177

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Re: Rifleman or cook?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 04:53:54 PM »
Good to hear that, Scout!

Hey, check around on the site - the Redcoats were downloaded from Appleseed.

Offline scout34

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Re: Rifleman or cook?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 02:48:30 AM »
Finally got my Tech Sights for 10/22 and sighted in on some of those free targets.  I didn't realize how accurate that little gun is.  Get a set of these sights for your rifle.

http://www.tech-sights.com/

Offline scout34

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Re: Rifleman or cook?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 03:16:59 PM »
Went to the Arnold Air Force Base shoot in Manchester Tenn. and shot a 227 with my 10/22, then turned around and shot a 237 with my M1A.  I HAD A BLAST!  What a great time!  We had folks on the line that ranged in age from 10 years up to 70.  One mother of 6 grit her teeth and refused to quit until she had it in the bag, and shot a 216!  If you have not been to one of these things, look them up and and find one near you.  You will not be disappointed.