Need help shooting a T/C Super 14

[jeager106]

Never had much use for the T/C guns.
Well I swap a lot and a brand new Contender with Super 14 30-30 and .45.410 barrels in boxes came my way.
Can't use 30-30 for deer in Ohio, must be straight walled PISTOL ctg.
Had no use for the .410/.45, swapped that for a new 23 inch in .223. Good move.
Ran into a gun auction, asked if I could trade the 30-30 on something that fits the Ohio laws.
So he spld me a ..................................ready?...............................gulp.
Super 14 inch 45-70.
Well having shot a lot of big handguns and be 62 years old and shooting since I was 9 I figured this baby would kick but should knock a deer over pronto.
I got the barrel, mounted a 1.4 X 4 Burris on it, grabbed a box of hot Marlin 400 grain loads and outside to the back woods range I went.
I thought maybe I should shoot the first one standing in case in kicked a lot.
Holy ammo prices, did that sucker kick.
My hand were numb, I almost LOST the gun as she rared back hitting me over the top of the head with the front sight.
Now I don't flinch, but I'm here to tell you I was shaking like a new groom at a wedding when I loaded that second artilery shell into the thing.
I decided to bench this one. Shaking ya know.
Same thing. Almost lost the gun, hands were numb and the sting was downright seriously painful.
I have a knee with five tears in the cartalidge, and 7 ruptured disks.
I can handle pain but NOT this kind!
Obviously it ain't meant to shoot Marlin pressure loads.
Practicing won't help as it's the same as practicing putting your hands in the grinder to see if you can control the grinder.
I ordered PAST gloves.
The gun is NOT ported.
So who of you shoots a 45-70 in a T/C pistol? With what loads?
I have a 10 inch in .44 mag and it's a pussy cat compared to that monster 45-70.
Can I load down?
Like maybe 2.5 grains of bullseye or something?

[jhalcott]

jeager, shoot Reminton 300 grain FACTORY loads in it! It will handle any TRAPDOOR loads as well. You can load it up to 1800 fps, but WHY. If you use h322 or 4198 and work up to an accurate 1600 fps load it will do all you need it to do! My present barrel is a 15" ported one and I shoot 300 grain flat nosed cast bullets thru it. I also do NOT shoot it off hand! Preferring to rest it on SOMETHING when I am hunting. It will hammer a deer out to about 150 yards,BUT you have to practice to be that good.

[Grumulkin]

I've learned that when I shoot one of the heavy hitters to wear a glove (I use a weight lifters glove) and to put a band aide on the web of my hand between the thumb and index finger where Encores/Contenders tend to tear the skin off.  Then I wear foam ear plug and ear muffs.

You ought to consider getting a muzzle brake installed.  They aren't that expensive and it will make your shooting much more pleasant.

Or, you could unload the barrel (pun intended) on some unsuspecting soul and get a barrel in another Ohio deer legal cartridge like a 357 Magnum or 357 Maximum.

[Catfish]

I also live in Ohio and deer hunt with a handgun. Like you I don`t fear recoil, but in a Contender the over travel screw eats my fingure up with big bore Contender barrels. I would recomand a .357 max. I have taken several deer with that round in my Encore and it`s not bad in a Contender. Max. point blank range with a 170 gr. bullet an a 14 in. barrel, plus or minus 2 in, is 105 yrds. and would be more with with plus or minus 4 in. so it will reach out pretty good for a deer handgun.

[Lone Star]

Factory 405-grain loads will kill well without the painful recoil.  Not a long range load, but deadly.  The factory 300s are more useful but kick a lot more too.   I hope you did not damage your Contender with the Marlin-level loads, they are over-pressure and can stretch the frame....

My .45-70s are fitted with Pachmayr Gripper rubber grips - they take out the sting.  I shoot handloads with 300-grain bullets and BlueDot powder for about 1500 fps - plenty of power for deer and relatively mild recoil. 

I know what you mean about almost losing the gun.  My .50-70 14" Contender weighs very little - that thin barrel and no scope means around 3 pounds total.  With 530s at 1250 fps I am through after 20 shots in a row, I can barely hang on to the grip after that....

The .357 Maximum is obsolete and it is unknown how long current ammo supplies will be available.  Too bad - hoard it now if that is your choice.


.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with the others. Marlin level loads have no place in a contendor. An encore is a differnt animal though and can take them. A contendor should be shot with factory level loads or equivelent handloads. I ruined one once by shooting heavy loads. It actually stretched the frame.

[jeager106]

I agree about NOT using Marlin level 45-70 loads, even from my 23 inch 45-70 Contender barrel.
The frames is still the same.
I tried 30 grains of SR4759 under a Sierra 300 grainer.
Recoil, though stout was not at all the killer loads I had been using.
The books say that load gets me about 1600 fps.
I set up a LOOOOOOONg line of gallon jugs of water at 25 and plugged them with that load.
Jug #1 simply exploded into many pcs. # 2 split in half as did #3.
I only found part of the jacket and lots of little dots of lead and copper.
I sighted the gun in 1" high at 50 but I have more work to do with it.
I have not benched for accuracy yet though the SR4759 looks like it wants to make small groups.
I want to try milder 3031, Re7, and 4198.
A 300 grainer at 1600 or 1700 fps is PLENTY of deer gee whiz.
I also wore a pair of leather shooting gloves to take a little sting out and that helped a great deal.
I think there is no need to use the heavy bullets for deer at tree stand handgun ranges.
I never did believe in trying to make a rifle out of a T/C pistol.
100 yards would me my max range and even then I'd need a solid rest.
I shot Marlin loads from my 23 incher and promptly split the stock!
T/C replaced it. I wrote a letter asking if Marlin loads were acceptable in the 23 inch carbine ontender but T/C remains mute on the subject.
Common sense and advice from you fellows tells me the gun should be used with loads at less than Marlin hot loads.
Way less.
And it will still do it's job.
Thanks a lot.

[warrior1]

you got a lot of options with reloading. my buffalo rifle loves 3031 and a 405 gr lead bullet. not a heavy recoiling load. now my marlin different story it loves r7 and a 300gr jacketed. here again you could load down to a manageable load. i'm not quite sure how it would do ,blackpowder may be more of a manageable kick.

if it was an encore barrel , i'd offer you a 454 barrel for the 45/70.good luck to you this fall dan.

[huntswithdogs]

What grips are on it now? My Brother in law's contender has the wood grip with the cushioned rubber piece at the back. It's a lot more comfortable than a buddy who has one with the solid wood grips.



HWD

[Merle]

Factory 405-grain loads will kill well without the painful recoil.  Not a long range load, but deadly.  The factory 300s are more useful but kick a lot more too.   I hope you did not damage your Contender with the Marlin-level loads, they are over-pressure and can stretch the frame....

My .45-70s are fitted with Pachmayr Gripper rubber grips - they take out the sting.  I shoot handloads with 300-grain bullets and BlueDot powder for about 1500 fps - plenty of power for deer and relatively mild recoil. 

I know what you mean about almost losing the gun.  My .50-70 14" Contender weighs very little - that thin barrel and no scope means around 3 pounds total.  With 530s at 1250 fps I am through after 20 shots in a row, I can barely hang on to the grip after that....

The .357 Maximum is obsolete and it is unknown how long current ammo supplies will be available.  Too bad - hoard it now if that is your choice.


.

+1 on the 405 gr loads. They kick noticeably less than the 300 gr loads.
My 14" is not ported either, but the Pachmeyer Decelerator grips help a lot, as does a good SHOOTING glove. Also the Pachmeyer fore-end adds a little weight and helps too. My choice is the Chimere glove.

 

[Graybeard]

Use standard pressure ie., black powder level loads and you'll be fine. Some folks like to see how much they can punish their bodies with recoil and the .45-70 will sure let you do that if that's your way to get your jollies.

Using 300 grain bullets you'll be able to get more velocity before the recoil hurts but you can push the 400s either cast or the bulk pack stuff like Remingtons to about 1000-1100 from that TC and kill anything you need to and still it won't kick you silly.

[winman]

Lots of light loads here.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm