Author Topic: BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless  (Read 2138 times)

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Offline diddy

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« on: May 17, 2003, 11:38:01 AM »
I just casted my first batch of pure lead 255Gr. Mini R.E.A.L. bullets and would like to know if anyone would have a lube Recipe for blackpowder/smokeless? I have a T/C Inline and they said use pure Lead to cast bullets, no gas checks. I am using 777 powder and went to their site and they said use smokeless lube and didnt say for what alloy. I found  a lube SPG for both smokeless or Blackpowder, but the price is $22.00 plus S/H  $4.00 for 1/2 lb. I like the tripple 7 powder but can only use pure lead which burns hoter. Can Anyone HELP? I will Pan Lube. :

Offline Gatofeo

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2003, 07:11:08 AM »
I use a very old factory recipe that was originally intended for outside lubricated bullets such as .22 rimfires and the .32, .38 and .41 Long Colt.
I use it in all black powder applications, and have also used it in my .357 Magnum at velocities up to about 1,200 feet per second.
Perhaps it works at higher velocities, but I haven't tried it with smokeless powder at higher velocities.
The recipe is:

1 part paraffin (I use canning paraffin, sold in grocery stores)
1 part mutton tallow (sold by Dixie Gun Works. Regular lard will work but not quite as well).
1/2 part beeswax
All measurements are by weight, not volume.

I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients.
Place them in a quart Mason jar. Place the jar in 3 or 4 inches of boiling water. Ensure all ingredients are thoroughly melted, then stir with a clean stick or disposable chopstick.
Allow to harden at room temperature; hastening cooling by placing in the refrigerator may cause the ingredients to separate.
When cool, screw the lid down tight and store in a cool, dry place.
To use in a lubricator/sizer, thoroughly clean the sizer of all traces of the older lubricant. A can of brake cleaner will dissolve all of the old lubricant. This is best done outdoors onto newspapers, of course.
When clean, place the jar back into the boiling water and pour it into the reservoir.
You can also pan-lube bullets, which does not size them to diameter. Simply place the bullets base down in a pie pan, melt the lubricant in boiling water again, and pour the lubricant in the pan until it fills the top grease grooves.. Allow to harden then remove the cookie of grease with bullets still enclosed.
Simply push the bullets from the nose, out through the back of the lubricant cake.
The above lubricant is nearly identical to SPG. At the range, others have thought I'm using SPG. The greatest difference is the scent. It's slightly stronger with SPG.
Some may pooh-pooh the use of paraffin in the recipe because it's a petroleum product. Genereally speaking, petroleum products when mixed with black powder create a hard, tar-like fouling.
However, this hasn't been the case when I've used canning paraffin. A chemist in another site said that paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons found in other petroleum products. Apparently, hydrocarbons are the culprit.
I don't know about any of this, but I DO know that paraffin, when used in the above recipe, doesn't create any of the troublesome fouling that other petroleum products create.
This is a very good lubricant. For black powder and low-velocity smokeless powder loads. It's all I use.
As to lead alloy:
If you use black powder, you must use a very soft alloy. Certainly no harder than wheelweights (about 9.5 Brinnell Hardness). Pure lead is about 4 BHN.
Black powder demands soft lead bullets with a soft non-petroleum (non-Alox) lubricant for best accuracy and to prevent leading.
A hard-cast lead bullet with petroleum lubricant, when used with black powder, will be inaccurate and cause a great deal of leading.
This is why some shooters get discouraged when they load black powder in their .45 Colt, .44-40 or .45-70. They buy hard-cast bullets, with a hard lubricant intended for smokeless powders,  then load them on top of black powder.
Accuracy is dismal, leading and fouling are terrible. Yet, such bullets work fine with smokeless powder. So the reloader thinks that black powder is worthless.
Actually, black powder is very consistent when measured because so much is required.
If you are off by half a grain of weight with smokeless powder, it can cause velocity variations. But a half grain of black powder variation, because so much black powder is required, won't make a whit of difference.
With the proper lead alloy, and the proper lubricant, black powder loads can be remarkably accurate.
One more thing: any type of copper fouling in a bore is pure poison to lead bullets, whether they are propelled with smokeless or black powder. You must have a bore scrupulously clean of copper and plastic fouling if you use lead bullets.
If 777 says that smokeless powder lubricant is fine then it must be. Trust the manufacturer over me. I've never used 777 so I can't speak from experience with that propellant. However, I think the above lubricant will meet all your needs.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline diddy

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2003, 03:35:47 AM »
Gatofeo
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Alot of good info. I am shooting a T/C inline 50 cal. I went to 777 web site to learn about their powder and was impressed and decided to try it. I wanted to cast my own bullets, but 777 burns a little hotter, so I asked them about using pure lead with tripple 7 and that was when they said use a smokeless lube. I do plan to use this lube. I have mutton tallow and bees wax ordered.
 thought about wheel waits { i have pleanty] but was told they would porably be a problem getting them in the bore. I will pan lube and go from there. I can use 90 grains of 777 and have the same charge of 100 grains of BP. I dont want to sound cheap about buying lube or sabots, but I had a heart attack a little was back that took 50% of my heart. Now everthing I do seems like a major task that I use to do and never think about it. It is rough just to cover everyday needs.
  I have about 350 to 400 to lube. Is it best to lube a few at a time for each time of shooting?
 Again THANKS for the post

Offline Gatofeo

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2003, 03:18:09 PM »
You can lube large batches of bullets. There's no need to lube only what you'll use.
However, you have to keep the lubricant from drying on the bullet. For this, it's best to place the bullets base-down in small boxes, each layer separated by a piece of cardboard.
Then wrap the box thoroughly with Saran Wrap or, if the box is small enough, place it in a Zip-Loc bag. You may also use Tupperware containers but I'd wrap them in Saran Wrap. Tupperware doesn't form as tight a seal as required.
As long as you store the lubricated bullets in a cool, dry place and well-protected against losing moisture they'll last for years. They may get a little dark from oxidation but it won't affect shootability.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline diddy

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2003, 12:09:34 PM »
Gatofeo
I went ahead and got the mutton tallow from Dixie Gun, but was just wondering, where you said regular Lard will work. Could you give me an idea of the differance between  the two ? I mean I can get Lard in at the store, but if the mutton tallow is worth the extra mile, it  will be tallow.
Tkanks again.

Offline Gatofeo

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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2003, 07:31:24 AM »
Mutton tallow is said to contain lanolin, a natural lubricant found in the wool of sheep. I don't know about this, but mutton tallow seems to create a slicker, oilier lubricant than when lard is used.
This is my experience but then, I knew which lubricant contained the lard or tallow so I may have been subconsciously prejudiced.
At $7 for two tubs of mutton tallow, it's not expensive.
Besides, the look on people's faces when you tell them that you use mutton tallow is priceless.
Most have never heard of it. One guy at the local gravel pit asked me where they get mutton tallow.
"From the Mutton Fish, of course. It's caught off the coast of Washington State. Lives deep, so it's not easily caught," I told him. "Costs a lot of money for it but it's worth it."
He seemed satisfied with the answer.
Been kinda waiting for him to show up in a website, asking where there's a cannery in Washington State that sells mutton tallow ... heh heh heh.
Gatofeo is a grumpy ol' desert cat with an evil streak ...  :twisted:
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline diddy

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2003, 09:00:52 AM »
Gatofeo :) Sounds like you got him good.
Just want to thank you for taking the time to help me out. I went to tripple seven powder and was told to use a smokeless lube for pure lead bullets. I just figured, why not make a lube to use with any powder I choose to use. Pyrodex has sulfer in it, harder to clean up, and a odd smell even after cleaning a while. With 777, no cloud of smoke, no smell, and to clean just a drop or two of dish liquid detrgent in a small bowl of water to clean parts with a damp cloth or the bore. Thanks again for helping me out.

Offline jh45gun

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2003, 06:25:38 PM »
I made a Lube out of Bees wax and Bore Butter Seems to work well for me. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Pigeonroost Slim

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BULLET LUBE for BP OR Smokeless
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2003, 05:37:06 AM »
Gatofeo;

Also consider pure lanolin for a batch some day.  Available from www.glorybee.com.  Its a great general purpose and case lube too.

prs
A man's word is his bond.