Thoughts on the Springfield “Trapdoor” Single-Shot Rifle &am

[Ray Newman]

Within the last day, recommendations were made as to two very good reference works on the venerable Trapdoor.

If any Shooter is contemplating the purchase of an original now (or some time in the future), I would heartily recommend that you purchase either of these texts & become somewhat familiar w/ them. (The Ernst & Waite is a little more handy to carry.) Both contain appendices which provide pertinent manufacturing data & specs. This could possibly save you money when dealing w/ unscrupulous dealer(s) or a questionable rifle/carbine.

Several years ago, I was on the quest for a carbine. At one show, I saw one that was close to my price range, the dealer was willing—very willing--& almost too willing to bargain somewhat. He said that he had it for a short while  & wanted to get his money back. The “old widow’s gun” story…. Swore up & down that it was all 100% GI & all original parts. Complete gun—not a parts gun. A story we all have heard & wanted to believe, esp. if the price is right. Told him I needed to think about it, but I was interested.

In my “gun show bag”, I had a copy of Ernst & Waite’s Trapdoor book. Looked up the appendix that listed the specs for the carbine, incl. carbine barrel diameter @ the muzzle. Made a mental note & went back over. While he was talking to another party, I measured the barrel—right length, but wrong (way too big) diameter when I miked it. Looked closely @ the tip of the forearm in sunlight by the window. Could barely make out that the ramrod hole had been plugged. A good plug job, but visible in the strong sunlight. When he asked if I wanted it, I told him to knock a few hundred  $$ as it obviously was a cut down rifle. Thought he was going to come unglued & he claimed that the book was wrong. We didn’t even discuss the mismatched breechblock or the wrong cartouche date vis-à-vis the SN.…

For a relatively few dollars now, you can/may save many hundreds down the road. If a dealer is honest about a parts gun, that’s another story. But w/ the popularity of the costume game-cowboy action shooting, these little armoury gems are becoming more & more rare & prices are climbing for an original rifle or carbine.  @ a recent show I saw an original M1873 carbine—yes it was all original & in good shape- quickly go-out-the-door for slightly in excess of 1K!

This same applies to Krag carbines

As always, CAVEAT EMPTOR, but be an informed buyer….

[John Traveler]

GREAT ADVICE, Ray!

That Ernst & Waite book is probably the best $40 I ever spent in the M1873 Springfield collecting and shooting of the last three years.

You know, I still have to shake my head when someone responds with an indignant, "I DON'T THINK SO!!!!" when asked about some little detail or apparent anomaly from the accepted research.

You would think that if blatant ignorance or unscrupulousness was as common as it seems to be at most gunshows, why people would shop there at all.

A couple weeks ago, I got interested in an antique Marlin slide-action .25 rimfire rifle at a bargain price.  It was in nice overall shape, but no serial number, and when I measured the barrel length, it was a couple incles short of standard.  A close look showed the muzzle had been carefully hand filed, polished, cold-blued and the front sight was in a handcut dovetail.  When I pointed these things out to the lady seller, she proclaimed loudly, "I DON'T THINK SO!!!  YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!"

Geeeze.... and she was wondering why this cheapskate didn't buy her rifle!

John

[Ray Newman]

John: you are right about the best $40 dollar investment….

I think @ the gun shows, most people get a severe dose of auction fever when they see something that they really want & the price seems to be good.

Now that I’m older & realize just how much BS I put up w/ to earn the more former pay cheques & now my retirement cheques, I’m a great more careful & observant of what I buy.

If the dealer will not let me & him to walk outside & look @ it under strong sunlight (if possible),  run a patch thru the bore & look at it, or maybe remove it from the stock to look for any markings or hidden rust, I’ll usually walk away.

Then there are a great # of Shooters who think that @ the gun shows everything is on-the-up-&-up & prices are a bargain. The dealers know what everything worth & there are some who will sell anything to an unsuspecting buyer. I know Shooter who paid extra for a star s/n T-door carbine because the dealer lead him to believe that it was the same thing as a star gauged 1903 & "we all know how accurate they are."

Sometimes just walking around watching the buyers/potential buyers and dealers operate is well worth the prices of admission.

When I was really into the gun show circuit  Sacramento , San Jose, San Francisco Cow Palace, Alameda County Fairgrounds, Vallejo, CA  shows & those @ Reno NV), I had a Steve Safos clone gas mask bag that contained a take down cleaning rod, several jags & patches in a container, a small bore scope, magnifying glass, a small note book for what I was looking for, other reference info, RIG rag, etc.

I wonder how many people have unkowingly bought a worked over Italian made Colt SAA gov't issue/marked clone revolver w/in the last few years? I  bet that we'll sonn see worked over NORINCO M98 riot shotguns offered as the real mcCoy....

As always CAVEAT EMPTOR.

[Ray Newman]

John Traveler: are you talking 'bout the Marlin 27S? I never seen one of them. Heard 'bout them, but never seen/handled one.

PS: are you a "traveleing man" belonging to another Craft beside the shooting craft?

[John Traveler]

Yes, Ray,

I believe that was the Marlin 27s I examined.  I've seen two in the last two weeks.

At first glance, it looked like a fatter hammerless Winchester M1890.

The .25 rimfire caliber makes it a non-shooting oddity.

There was NO visible serial number.  Did this model even HAVE  a serial number?

You must be one of those difficult-to-please customers, Ray!  Imagine that... walking around at a gun show with cleaning rod, cleaning gear, bore scope, reference books, and JUST LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO ARGUE WITH!!!  

*GRIN*.  Gee... I thought I was the only one that did that!

I'm usually John Traveler, and sometimes traveling man, but what other craft are you talking about?

John

[Ray Newman]

John: re Marlin M27—don’t know nothing about them. I once knew a Collector who lusted after one.

As for the gun show bag, when I was –emphasis on” was”—in my gun show attending/buying days, I simply wanted to get what I was paying for….

No BS about how the pristine (no stock dings or worn bluing, etc.) Win M1885 Schuetzen model belonged to somebody’s grandfather who was a well known State shooter back in 1901….

By the way, Guns America (item GA# 976372370) has a T-door officer’s Model 4sale. Only $44, 000.00 w/ a one-week inspection privilege. Check it out @ http://www.gunsamerica.com/

I thought you might be a Free Mason.