Author Topic: New USH Slug Questions (Read 1296 times)

Matt3357 · « **on:** October 04, 2008, 07:02:25 PM »

Just got my new USH barrel all put together and sighted in with cheapo remington slugs today. I was looking at getting some sabot slugs and see if i can get my group down at 100'. Its really bad with the cheapo's. The only problem I am having is that I live in Illinois and my shotgun is 20 gauge. Hopefully you all will tell me that this is not a problem but here goes. In illinois the minimum size bullet is .45 calibur. What size is a sabot slug in 20 gauge? I would assume that since they sell them here they are legal but, they also sell fmj rifle ammo which you can't hunt with so I'm just covering my 6 you know. I've always just used the sluggers cuz they shoot really really well out to 50-75 yards but you get out to 100' and they drop like a rock and are all over the place. So time to lay down some money and get some real bullets. I was looking at the 3" buckhammers too but thought I would ask some opinions first. I have pretty much the norm available to me such as hornady sst's, lightfields, all remington's, etc. I wouldn't worry too much, but where I hunt, I can see out to around 500-600 yards and shot my 10 point buck at 165 yards last year with a 12 gauge slugger, pretty sure it was an accident that it hit him right in the lungs and heart. It sure didn't look that far from the tripod though. I just want to be sure I can shoot out that far accurately and not risk it again. Thanks in advance.

Matt

3s3k · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2008, 04:01:14 AM »

You mentioned USH barrel which should be rifled therefore using SABOT slugs is essential for better accuracy.
Trying different sabots to see which one your barrel works best with will help,that being said my 20ga USH
works best with Remington copper solids and Lightfield Hybred exp's out to 125yds,not much use to shoot farther than that here in Ohio.gl

Matt3357 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2008, 04:07:29 AM »

The question is tho, I live in Illinois, is the bullet in a 20 gauge sabot larger than 45 caliber? That was the point of the post. Plus this thing shoots like a laser with the cheapos at 50 yards. 3 in one ragged hole. Just wanna be able to reach out and touch something.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2008, 05:17:42 AM »

Not sure. I just spent 10 min digging through boxes in the garage, I just moved and do not have all my stuff put away yet, to find the Remington catalog. It talks about a 50 caliber slug for the 12 ga. But does not say tell dia of the 20ga. I think I remember it being 41 or 43 in an article I read but that was a couple years ago.
It is a 260 grain bullet in the bonded slug and 5/8 oz in the pure copper.
All I can tell you is get a box and shoot it into a box of wet news papers, recover the slugs and measure the back end. Or cut one open and measure.
Sorry I hit reply before I spent 10 min moving crap in the garage to find the catalog so I sent as best of an answer as I could.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2008, 05:22:22 AM »

Is the rule written saying bullet size or bore diameter? If it's bore they just don't want you hunting with a 410. If it's bullet diameter than, OK, measure the slug.
12ga = .729
16ga = .69
20ga = .615
28ga = .54
410 is .410

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2008, 05:55:10 AM »

I've lived in IL my whole life and have never heard of the 45cal rule where did you find that?. Hasting slug measures about .551 and I think the other I measured was a Buckhammer measured just a tad less. I know the ML bore has to be at least 45. But you can use pistol down to 30 cal in a bottle neck and staight walled 357.Shotguns must be of 20 ga min. Some are have good luck with the Rem coppers ,I found the Buckhammers did the job well last yr and the Hastings were just about the same . This yr I'm shooting full bore home brew Dixie slugs and Dangerous game slugs out of my Ultra light slug Hunter. But I haven't taken a shot over 75 yards in many many yrs. Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2008, 08:28:44 AM »

The Hornady 20ga round uses the 250gr .452" SST bullet, same as the saboted muzzleloader bullet.

Tim

Matt3357 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2008, 05:04:01 PM »

Quote from: PHATINJUN on October 05, 2008, 05:55:10 AM

I've lived in IL my whole life and have never heard of the 45cal rule where did you find that?.

It states it right in the "Illinois digest of hunting and trapping"

"For shotguns and muzzleloading firearms, the
minimum size of the projectile shall be .45 caliber.
A wad or sleeve is not considered a projectile
or a part of the projectile."

I had always heard that sabot's were illegal to hunt deer with but could not for the life of me figured out why they sold them here if they were. Well now I know the whole story and have decided what to do. I will take Tim's information (like usual, its never failed me yet) and buy a box of the Hornady SST's, Buckhammers, Coppersolids, and a box of Hastings. Shoot them all and see what happens.

Thanks for all who replied, not sure where you all get your endless pit of information about things I can never find on the internet, but I'm not sure what I would do without it. Thanks!

d_hiker · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2008, 09:18:54 AM »

I love the BuckHammers and they are a full bore. In looking at the specs, there is minimal difference in the 2 3/4" and the 3" in the 20ga. There is more of a difference in the 12ga BuckHammers. This year I have had a harder time finding the 20ga BuckHammers. I have a couple more places to look before I order them online.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2008, 04:13:16 PM »

What do you mean there is minimal difference in the 2 3/4 vs the 3" in 20 gauge? You mean ballistics wise? or recoil wise? I found a place close to back home that sells both in 20. Its the only place I have found yet that stocks them both.

Matt

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2008, 04:52:17 PM »

I guess I have always read right past the shotguns part of that law and looked at it as a ML. Have you found any sabot slugs that do not meet the minimum.I would be surprised if any of the major ammo makers made any .IL is probly one of if not the largest consumers of slug ammo and with the Hornady SST being a 45 cal pistol/ML bullet it is the smallest I can recall seeing. Kurt

d_hiker · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2008, 06:53:39 PM »

Quote from: Matt3357 on October 06, 2008, 04:13:16 PM

What do you mean there is minimal difference in the 2 3/4 vs the 3" in 20 gauge? You mean ballistics wise? or recoil wise?

Ballistic wise. This is from the Remington catalog on page 3 of the following pdf file
http://www.remington.com/pdfs/08cat/2008_ammo.pdf

MV 50yds 100yds
2 3/4" 1oz slug 1500fps 1159fps 995fps
2236ft/lbs 1461ft/lbs 1074ft/lbs
trajectory 0.0" -4.6"

3" 1oz slug 1550fps 1245fps 1051fps
2470ft/lbs 1592ft/lbs 1134ft/lbs
trajectory 0.0" -4.1"

Matt3357 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2008, 04:22:00 AM »

wow there sure isn't much of a difference, is there much of a difference in felt recoil? I know there isn't much difference in price so if the recoil is about the same I'll probably shoot the 3's.

Thanks,
Matt

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2008, 06:25:47 AM »

yes there is a difference in felt recoil. I have never been able to figure out why guys buy and shoot 3" Magnum slugs (afflicted with "Magnumitus" perhaps?), unless they are hunting big bears or animals that can kill/harm/eat you, and for them you might want to get some hard cast Magnum Dixie Slugs. 2 3/4" standard slugs for deer are just the ticket, you need nothing more. They are cheaper, easier to shoot accurately and easier on your shoulder as well, I believe the lessened recoil is at least part of the reason many guys can shoot standard slugs more accurately than magnum slugs. I have a 20 guage USH and I will be trying 2 3/4" buckhammers out of it this yearbecause of all the good things I have read about them. I usually prefer 2 3/4" standard Brenneke slugs from my smoothbore Tracker 1's but what the heck, I will give these a try....<><....

Matt3357 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2008, 07:26:57 AM »

If the ballistics on the buckhammers are so similar between the 2 3/4's and the 3's then wouldn't it make sense that the felt recoil is very similar? I really don't know and will probably just get the 2 3/4 in everything this weekend when I head to the gun shop.

Thanks,
Matt

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2008, 10:25:07 AM »

Matt, I have never fored the Buckhammers either. I have always used my smoothbores over my rifled shotguns but have decided to give this 20 gauge USH a try. In my smoothbores I used regular foster slugs with the exception of my preferred slug, the Brenneke....<><....

d_hiker · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2008, 09:02:36 AM »

I found some 20ga 2 3/4" BuckHammers today. I was going to order some online after lunch today. While going to lunch I decided to stop by Dick's Sporting Goods and look at the deer stands they have on sale. Then I went to look for bullets for my Huntsman. Then I spotted the BuckHammers. They were only $6.99 a box. The cheapest I had found online was $11.99 for the 2 3/4". I scooped all 8 boxes into my hands.

You can never have too much ammo.

I have never found or shot 20ga 3" BuckHammers so I can't tell you about recoil. I have shot both 12ga 2 3/4" and 12ga 3" Buckhammers. There is a difference in recoil and they both kick like the dickens.

But before I got my 20ga USH I used my 12ga smooth bore with rifled choke tube with the BuckHammer 2 3/4" to take a nice buck and I didn't feel a thing. I swear there was no recoil.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2008, 01:01:02 PM »

Atta boy Doug!! It looks as if we both will be shooting the same setup this year,
20 gauge USH's with 2 3/4" buckhammers, best of luck and put meat on the pole buddy....<><....

for a walking around gun I do have a 20 gauge Tracker I which I may use as well....<><....

gary bartlow · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2008, 02:14:43 PM »

Just this past weekend I FINALY shot the 20 ga USH that I bought months ago for my son to use in this weekends up comming Youth gun hunt. I really wanted to put a scope on it but he really likes a red dot sight so thats what we went with.I ended up going with Lightfield Hybred exp's 2 3/4" and they grouped well at 75 yards.If I was using a scope I know I could tighten it up alot but you know. Several have mentioned the Buckhammer's but I heard a horror story from last year that makes me think aginst them.A friend of mine's son shot a BIG buck with one in last years youth season @ 50 yards and hit the deer in the sholder,long story short the deer didn't die and was shot by another in the regular gun season.When they skinned the deer they found the 20 ga Buckhammer underneth the hide and ontop of the sholder blade.I would have thought that it should have penetrated at that range ? ? ?

Matt3357 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2008, 04:35:30 PM »

Hmmmm, it is a pretty blunt slug made to flatten out in soft tissue, so I guess on an old deer with hard thick bones it could stop the slug. Thats a bummer on the buck. I am going to try the Hornady SST's and the Remington Copper solids as well as the buck hammers. I would say that a buck hammer would easily kill a buck out to 150 yards or farther simply on the basis that I took my 10 pointer at 165 yards with a cheapo remington slugger in 12 gauge. I'll shoot what groups the best at 100' and may the best round win.

Matt

d_hiker · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2008, 05:12:37 PM »

My 12ga BuckHammer buck was shot at 50yds. A heart and lung shot through the ribs on both sides and completely through. The 20ga BuckHammer buck was shot at 110yds. Another heart and lung shot through the rib cage on both sides but did not exit. It was just under the hide on the far side. Some how in dragging the deer out I lost the slug.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2008, 05:44:50 PM »

sounds like if you have good shot placement then they are devastating, just what I want, now all I need is for a bullet to make the deer run and jump into the bed of the truck before dying. lol

Matt