Looked at a .270

[Swampman]

I had been thinking about the .35 Whelen.  If it's accurate, it will remain a .270.  It should be adequate for our small deer.

[Brithunter]

I do hate the cartridge, but I really like the rifle.  If it isn't accurate, I may have it rechambered or trade it off.

Hmmm why am I not surprised at this    then to top it off ole swampy says this:-

I had been thinking about the .35 Whelen.  If it's accurate, it will remain a .270.  It should be adequate for our small deer.

Hmmm adequate    I see the insanity is showing through again  A couple of years ago I was enquiring about an Elk hunt in the US and contacted several Guide services and calibres and chamberings for Elk was one thing I asked. At that time I had the choice of 270 Winchester, 308 Winchester 8mm mauser (7.92mm) and 9.3x57 Mauser everyone of those contacted said the 270 with good bullets would be fine however a 30-06 pr 300 mag would be better  none it seems knew enough about the 8x57mm to suggest it and hedged when asked and none had heard of the 9.3x57 Mauser  . So I looked around and traded off an English SxS 12 bore shotgun for the Parker-Hale 1100 De Luxe I have in 30-06 and some money. Strangely enough none seemed to like the 308 Winchester? 

I did this as I figuered it was best to have a rifle chambered in a cartridge that the guides knew and liked as I would be in their hands during the trip and despite the 7.92mm being a superior cartridge in many ways using European ammunition ( 196 grn bullet at 2600fps) S&B 196 SPCE #2945. You can imagine the guide who does not know that the 7.92mm cartridge performs like this not being as keen to put one in such a good spot as perhaps they might if the client was using a cartridge that they knew and liked.

Perhaps for your "Small" deer swampy you would be better off with a 243 Winchester as after all you don't want to blow them up  .

[Swampman]

I prefer the .30-06 as it damages less meat, and you don't have to look for them.

[Brithunter]

I prefer the .30-06 as it damages less meat, and you don't have to look for them.

Hmmm now the others can see whay I question your sanity 

Meat damage has more to do with bullet selection and placement in my experience and if it was just the case of cartridge selection then following your flawed reasoning then perhaps you should be using the 30 Remington or 30-30 Winchester as they will or in theory should do less damage to a carcase than the 30-06 however it all comes down to bullet selection as I have personally seen the damage a 150 grain HP bullet from a factory Winchester 30-30 load on a Red Fox (Dog) at about 65 yards. That HP bullet at sedate 30-30 velocities made a hole you could put your fist in  and if fact I shot another dog Fox in almost the same spot from the same high seat but this time using a 303 using Winchester 180 SP amunition and it did a lot less damage with a heavier bullet at a higher velocity. The only thing it can be is bullet construction  .

As for shot beasts running it seems to me that the ones that run are heart shot and know something is about and are are tense and ready to fly at the first sign of danger. Those beasts I have shot that were totally unaware on my presence drop on the spot or only take a few steps  the few that have run did not go far and the only beast I have shot with the 30-06 was already laying down after being hit by a car range was 2". I normally try for a high heart low lung shot as I found that they drop quicker but as I have not shot hundreds and only three that I recall being heart shots it's not exactly proof.

So far I have shot deer with in fair chase the road casulty does not count:-

6.5x55
243 Win
270 Win
7x57mm
30-30 Win
308 Win

The worst blood shot carcase was a Roe Doe of about 40lbs shot at about 90 yards with a Hornady 160 Grn RN bullet for the 6.5x55 the exit sholder was just jelly and un-usable  so as a result I have not used that load again on Roe Deer. My last deer shot was  a Muntjac Buck of about 25lbs weight, a yearling and that was with a 130 grn Nosler Solid Base bullet from a 270 Win chambered rifle at about 80 yards the carcase made fine eating  these are small deer and yes both were fully grown.

[Swampman]

Meat damage has more to do with velocity than any other single factor in my experience.  I no longer take heart shots.  Shoulder shots prevent the loss of the entire animal.

[Bart Solo]

I think I am going to start another fight, but if you know how to hunt and you properly place a modern bullet, a 243 is more than adequate for any deer.  A 270 is probably more than adequate for wapiti if you make a good shot and use a modern bullet.

Now when it comes to dangerous game, moose or bison, I am in a whole different camp.  Very few of us south of Alaska and Canada will ever face a truly dangerous animal.                                                        

I would rather people shoot more and better than shoot bigger.  Bad shooting isn't cured by a big caliber. Of course, right now I have a hankering for a 35 Whelen, but that is just a hankering.

[Brithunter]

Hi Ron,

       Go ahead and get the Wheelan  it's supposed to be an excellent cartridge. I even had the mind to get one but then stumbled over the Husqvarna 46 in 9.3x57mm and fell in love with the rifle and the cartridge has proved to be more than I could imagine  .

       You won't start a fight with me  with your comments as I feel the same way even though I have a couple of what some would class at Big Bores with the 9.3x57mm and the 458 Win mag.

Now I must really respond to this  :-

Meat damage has more to do with velocity than any other single factor in my experience.  I no longer take heart shots.  Shoulder shots prevent the loss of the entire animal.

 Hmmmmm it seems that you have trouble reading and understanding plain Englishswampman ?

   I clearly stated that in my experience it's bullet construction and not velocity that causes this  or how else would one explain the huge hole and damage to that Fox from the 150 grain HP bullet fired from a factory loaded Winchester white boxed cartridge? The exit hole in the Muntjac Buck was under half the size yet that hole was made by a 130 grain bullet at much higher velocity from a 270 winchester chambered rifle. Real world experience and results do not support your claims but of course that does not matter in your world.

Edited:- to correct "ox" to Fox as it should have been 

[Swampman]

Your "Real world" "experience" and "results" do not support my facts but of course that does not matter in your world.

Mine & everyone else's experience & results support my facts.

I can't explain why you came to the wrong conclusions.

[Brithunter]

Hmmmm I was not aware that you knew everyone  just another expample of your delusions I am afraid as you certainly don't know me nor any of my friends so it cannot be true!

As for this :-

Mine & everyone else's experience & results support my facts.

 Hmmm now let's see in the US you can hunt deer for how long a year? if my memory serves me correctly in Missouri adding all the seasons together it works out to around 5 weeks. Then compare it to here in the UK where you can hunt deer all year round then compare your limited experience to my mentor in deer hunting a game keeper and guide who has probably shot more deer in one year than you have in your lifetime, a man who has no only managed the Deer population in a Deer park of a country estate but also a Scottish hill estate then later on the deer population on a commercial farm of several thousand acres, and who shoots deer for the commercial meat market. A bloodshot carcase is worthless.

Funny enough he does't like your favorite cartridge at all he also is not keen on the 270 Winchester cartridge and has used the 243 Winchester along with the 7x64 for many years. Recently due to barrel wear his 7x64 Mannlicher GK was rebarreled in 7-08. I wonder how many can actaully claim to have shot enough deer, Fox and Wild Boar with a rifle to cause enough wear in the barrel to cause the accuracy to fall noticably off with visable wear in the bore?


 I have hunted with him now for several years learning from his experience, I still like the 270 though and even have a 30-06 though , as I cannot ever hope to gain the practical experience that he has after all I have never worked as a game keeper his experience will win out over your neglible experience anyday. And he is not the only one I have hunted with whose experience easily out weighs yours. There are two others who I know or knew, sadly Tony passed away with cancer, who spent just about every working day managing the deer population on their patch. The other also teaches about deer their habits and the humane control of their populations. Another funny thing is none of them use or used the 30-06  but both used the 270 Win and 243 win and again both shot/shoot deer commercially for the meat market so I would hazzard a guess they know more about bloodshot meat and how to avoid it than your ever likely too 

Your living in a little world of your own and in fact thinking back I can only recall about half a dozen posts of yours which could be considered those of a normal mind  these rest are fiction 

[Swampman]

I find reflecting on what europeans think about shooting and hunting to be most humorous & ironic.  You come here and talk smack about our guns and cartridges, when you have given up all your rights.  To tell the truth you've never really had any.  I really don't know what to say.

If you weren't so arrogant, your post would be informative and enjoyable.  I work with several blokes, and find that most of them are pretty much like yourself.

[Brithunter]

  so the fact that we at least in the UK can hunt Deer all year round with no limits upsets you and even the guys you work with don't share yoru warped views. perhaps thsi should start filtering through that dense skull of yours 

Another post of yours to prove just what I have said for a long time your completly NUTS!

[Bart Solo]

I am from Missouri and you are right.  Added all together our seasons only last 5 weeks. Most Americans realize that longer unmanaged seasons would result in our hunting deer to extinction.  We would have deer hunting heaven for about a year if we followed your approach.   As it is we have a stable or growing population of 30,000,000 deer and 5-6 million tags being filled every year. 

I guess you guys breed deer in pens and let them roam when the royal family comes to the estate to get their inbred rocks off shooting some tame animal. About as natural and free as a rose garden.   

[Graybeard]

Well Ron it seems that like Swampman you are showing your ignorance of hunting in Europe and Great Britian. Over there the game is privately owned not owned by the state as it is here. So land owners set the game bag limits and seasons pretty much. They also determine who can hunt and who can't it's not like here with public land to hunt.

Their critters are as wild as ours here they live and breed in the wild not in pends. Hunting fenced game is not exactly unique to America but is also practiced in Africa and New Zealand but pretty much not in Europe I think.

[wareagleguy]

Swamp said,

"Meat damage has more to do with velocity than any other single factor in my experience.  I no longer take heart shots.  Shoulder shots prevent the loss of the entire animal."

If this is so why do they make FMJ and HP and SP bullets?  Sorry, old swampy but you are wrong again.

I had a buddy of mine that decided he was going to hunt with FMJ rounds.  I told him not to do it but he did it anyway.  He lost one but he shot another a few days later and I helped him find it.  Almost no blood and only a small hole in and out.
Is not the speed but the bullet expansion,  dummy.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

      Ahhh actually we have far too many deer here it's down to milder winters and modern agriculture which means winter sown crops provide food for the deer even if that was not the intent. So the population has exploded, road accidents involving deer is now a major a major problem in places and there are now deer where there were none before, like Urban deer,  so much so that they recently extended the Roe Doe season another month to try and cut down the numbers.

       There are a few Deer parks which were set up hundreds of years ago in some cases and shooting does take place in them but it's mostly professional cullers and stalkers who do this not the likes of me an hobby stalker  . Unless I catch some deer crossing out little bit of land I have to get permission from the land owners or pay for my stalking. I do have free permission on a little piece of ground in Sussex but since I moved that's a 4 hour drive and with the cost of fuel I don't get down there much now  . I have only been out stalking three times this year so far and have not conected with any shootable deer as yet but that's why it's called hunting and not shooting.

     I also understand that there are a few High fence shooting places ( I refuse to call it hunting) where you can shoot a trophy beast for a lot of money. Disgusting I know but it's  MONEY TALKING  . I really would like to shoot a reasonable Red Stag but the prices that the estates want in fees is beyond my pocket so I just do my little bit as I can. A couple of years ago by May I had shot 6 deer ( a Fallow yearling, 4 Roe and 1 Muntjac) then for three months I saw virtually nothing when out stalking, saw plenty walking the dog but not when carrying the rifle  then got another 4 before the end of the year.

[Bart Solo]

Well Ron it seems that like Swampman you are showing your ignorance of hunting in Europe and Great Britian. Over there the game is privately owned not owned by the state as it is here. So land owners set the game bag limits and seasons pretty much. They also determine who can hunt and who can't it's not like here with public land to hunt.

Their critters are as wild as ours here they live and breed in the wild not in pends. Hunting fenced game is not exactly unique to America but is also practiced in Africa and New Zealand but pretty much not in Europe I think.

I have shown my ignorance before and will probably do it again, but it occurs to me that the owners of large tracts of land are by and large the descendants of the people who used to own the whole country. They used to hang poachers.  

It also occurs to me that letting private landowners set their hunts is not really smart. Adequate species management requires large area coordination.  While I haven't hunted in England, I spent several weeks there back in 2002.  By American standards it is a pretty small place.  

Here is a question.  Do they have many hunters in England?    

[Bart Solo]

 I should have read Brithunter's comment before posting. You explained a lot. 

[Tunaman]

You should come down to Louisiana and Mississippi and see what we do to poachers, HANGING IS WAY TOO GOOD FOR THEM.

[saltydog]

Not sure the 270 will be "enough gun" to take care of this tortured thread.

[Swampman]

We have year round hunting in the US.  Most hog hunting is year round.  Our deer season last about 2.5 months.  I guess you could legally shoot over 100 deer during that time period.  They are small, and I feel the .270 is enough.  I don't feel the need to attack anyone because they disagree with me.  I don't stalk others from post to post attacking them.  I just post what I know from 45 years in the field.

[kevthebassman]

Obama elected, now swampy is talking .270?  I think that might just be the 7th seal opening!

[R.W.Dale]

Obama elected, now swampy is talking .270?  I think that might just be the 7th seal opening!

here's a thread that'll make the top of swampy's head come completely unscrewed

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,155958.0.html

[Brithunter]

Hi Ron,

      Yes Britain is quite a small place yet another strange think is that it's rifle only for deer. There are a couple of dubious exceptions for the use of shotguns but the law and rules are so blurred not many trust them so avoid using a shotgun. You can also sell your venison but recently they have introduced a certification on meat/carcase handling for those intended for the market. You can still give it to friends but not sell it unless you have this certificate  more interference from the EU  but seeing as how I never sell mine it has not effected me.

   We can aslo hunt Rabbit all year again no bag limits but I understand that we have another out break of Myxi so have not been out on the back field after them until it passes. A neighbour found some dead and dying bunnies on her paddock with the ponies but I have not seen any on ours yet.