Federal 223 brass

[Tn Jim]

I recently bought 2000 once fired 223 cases online. When I got them I saw the majority of them are Federal with some Winchester and Remington thrown in. I've heard the Federals are good for one reload at best. After that the primer pockets get too loose and they are soft to begin with. Any truth to all this? I have noticed that on the few I've loaded the primers seat very easily. Should I even fool with these? I don't want to blow up my gun with a ruptured case. It's plinking ammo for a 16" AR by the way. Thanks!

[Old Syko]

There is a lot of truth in what you've heard.  I get less than 1/3 the life from federal as I get from LC.  When I buy brass anymore it is nothing but 2000 or newer LC.  I have around 2500 federal in my present rotation and the next time they are loaded will be the last.  They will be relegated to shooting in the swamp.

[Tn Jim]

Do you remember how many times you have loaded them already? I loaded 20 of these and fired them with no problem. Cases looked fine when I picked them up. I'm just not entirely sure I trust them. However, I don't know much about them. I'm willing to give them a fair shake, if I hear some good reports. Old Syko, you have told me more of what I have already heard. Thanks. Anybody else?

[jasonprox700]

I've got some of the federals that I also reload for my ar.  So far no problems.  But I've only reloaded them about once.  We'll see.  If worst comes to worse, I can turn them in for scrap.  I here the brass scrap price is up there anyway!

I also have LC, and again, no problems.  These are from newer lots though.  I have got about 5 or 6 reloads on a few hundred with no problems. 

[Old Syko]

Do you remember how many times you have loaded them already?

Don't have to remember since I keep a log.  There was the original factory load and they have subsequently been loaded 4 times.  My notes tell me that the primer pockets will hold possibly 1 more loading but that is yet to be determined.  With LC brass I average 14 to 15 loads per.  I have yet to have federal brass last more than 6 rounds with equivalent loads.

Old Syko, you have told me more of what I have already heard.

Hmmm.  Must be some reason for that.

[teddy12b]

I've never bought a mixed bag of once fired brass and all I've ever reloaded in 223 has been winchester brass.  I have some batches of winchester brass that have been fired 5 or more times without any sign of wear & tear.  I would keep your federal brass seperate and do a test on just a small sample of the brass just to see how long it'll last.

[Steve P]

If you don't want the federal brass, send it to me!!

LC is Lake City brass and is per Mil-Spec.  It is a little harder.  LC, more likely than not, has crimped in primers.  Seat a few primers in LC brass and then get a Federal brass made to SAAMI spec and primer will go in like butter.   LC brass is made to Mil-Spec of 60k.  Federal .223 brass is made to SAAMI spec of 50K.  Lots less pressure.

If you are shooting in an AR, make sure you are using the small base sizing dies.  Also, you don't need to pump up the power to work a good clean action.  Most of the guys shooting the Military Matches at our club are using ARs loaded with ball powder and 62gr FMJ bullets.  They don't get jambs and blown primer pockets. 

I have been loading for better than 20 years and have 1000s of .223 and 5.56 brass at home.  I have yet to stretch a primer pocket in this type brass with a load that came from a reloading manual.  22 hornet yes, but not .223 or 5.56.

Good luck and stay safe.  (oh, and you can send me the Federal brass if you want.)

Steve

[fastbike]

I know I have Federal brass that has seen 4 or 5 loads in my AR. Like others, all of my loads are "book" loads under max.

[hunterwinco]

Since this thread is all about Federal .223 brass, I thought I'd ask a question.  I had another range member give me a box of once fired from one of the recent PD's training.  The box had 440 federal cases and 119 Lake City.  The federal brass had crimped primers like the LC.  Is that normal on federal ammo?  I've never noticed that before on any "consumer" 223 that I had bought before.  Are the Federal rounds that Law Enforcement purchase a better quality brass? 

[Old Syko]

Is that normal on federal ammo?

Any Mil-spec round will have crimped primers regardless of manufacturer due to being built to military specifications.  Commercial ammo will not.  Military ammo is loaded to a higher pressure level than commercial also.

That being said, Federal is Federal in my book.  Same soft brass regardless of intended use.  After all the original intent is for one time use and disposal, so the soft brass becomes a non-issue to the military as long as primers don't pop out in that first firing.

[Old Syko]

Steve P

If you don't want the federal brass, send it to me!!

Be happy to!  $65 per 1000 + shipping just like everyone else.

If you are shooting in an AR, make sure you are using the small base sizing dies.

Bull!  If you have an AR that requires small base dies your chamber is grossly undersized and in need of attention.  ARs are not chambered the same as a Remington 7400 for example.  Some of the custom match barrels have been known to be on the tight side but I've never heard of any of the standard chamberings to be so.

I have been loading for better than 20 years and have 1000s of .223 and 5.56 brass at home.  I have yet to stretch a primer pocket in this type brass with a load that came from a reloading manual.  22 hornet yes, but not .223 or 5.56.

Try some Federal brass and that will quickly change.

[Steve P]

Steve P

If you don't want the federal brass, send it to me!!

Be happy to!  $65 per 1000 + shipping just like everyone else.

If you are shooting in an AR, make sure you are using the small base sizing dies.

Bull!  If you have an AR that requires small base dies your chamber is grossly undersized and in need of attention.  ARs are not chambered the same as a Remington 7400 for example.  Some of the custom match barrels have been known to be on the tight side but I've never heard of any of the standard chamberings to be so.

I have been loading for better than 20 years and have 1000s of .223 and 5.56 brass at home.  I have yet to stretch a primer pocket in this type brass with a load that came from a reloading manual.  22 hornet yes, but not .223 or 5.56.

Try some Federal brass and that will quickly change.

Why would I PAY you for brass when I can get used brass for lots less, especially when I buy in bulk.  My last buy of used brass was 5000 for $200 and most of it was commercial.  I was offering to pick up the "garbage" federal brass he did not seem to want.

I will state it again, IF you are getting enlarged primer pockets with current federal .223 brass, your load is WAY over book (read safe) load or your chamber is WAY oversized (read "field guage" or +).  I have 1000s of .223 and 5.56 brass loaded into factory and wildcat loads including .17 Rem, .223, 6TCU, 6.5TCU, and 7TCU.  Maybe a 1000 or more are federal cases.  Some fired up to 10x.  I have NEVER stretched a primer pocket. 

If you are stretching primer pockets, you are reaching UNSAFE pressures and should immediately stop before you and/or someone next to you gets hurt.

My honest opinion.

Steve

[Graybeard]

Dunno about anyone else's experience with Federal brass is but my experience is that it is some of the best out there. For bottle neck rounds I roughly rate them in this order from best to worst.

Norma, Hornady, Federal, Winchester/Remington/tie, PMC at the very bottom and not worth picking up. LC brass is excellent stuff and right up there near the top in my experience. I suspect Lapua would be also but I've not ever used any so am not sure.

I agree with Steve if you are stretching primer pockets you need to back up and figure out why it's NOT the brass at fault. I don't remember ever having to stop using a .223 case due to loose primer pockets on any brand of primer. I don't really sort brass by lots so don't know for sure how many times any given case has been loaded but some have been loaded a BUNCH of times and are still going strong. I have no doubt many of mine have seen ten loads or more.

I'm still using .44 Magnum cases from RP and WW that have been loaded well over 50 times and perhaps over 100 times and they seem to work just fine.

[KRP]

The last bunch of Federal .223 cases I had I couldn't reload.  It was factory ammo and the primers would fall out when I went to reload them.  I've got Federal .357 and .44 cases that have numerous reloads on them but this bunch of .223 is junk.

[Old Syko]

Why would I PAY you for brass when I can get used brass for lots less, especially when I buy in bulk.  My last buy of used brass was 5000 for $200 and most of it was commercial.  I was offering to pick up the "garbage" federal brass he did not seem to want.

It was your suggestion and surely you didn't expect something for nothing did you?  I notice you don't offer any useful info on where the rest of us can get cheap brass so I must assume it is only a private thing that is therefore of no value to anyone else.

I will state it again, IF you are getting enlarged primer pockets with current federal .223 brass, your load is WAY over book (read safe) load or your chamber is WAY oversized (read "field guage" or +).  I have 1000s of .223 and 5.56 brass loaded into factory and wildcat loads including .17 Rem, .223, 6TCU, 6.5TCU, and 7TCU.  Maybe a 1000 or more are federal cases.  Some fired up to 10x.  I have NEVER stretched a primer pocket. 

If you are stretching primer pockets, you are reaching UNSAFE pressures and should immediately stop before you and/or someone next to you gets hurt.

And yet again you are making false assumptions.  The statements I've made here concerning Federal brass for use in handloading for ARs, which BTW is the OPs original concern, are quite common results obtained by those of us who actually load for and shoot ARs in volume.  It is also common knowledge that commercial brass used in ARs is not a good idea.  The majority of actual AR users use LC strictly because of availability even though some of us will occasionally use RORG, Privi and even Guat with their tiny flash holes but I know of no one who uses commercial regularly. 

Primer pocket expansion in Federal brass for this application has been well known for a long time and has been attributed by many to nothing more than an anomaly of either the material used or something in the manufacturing process itself which is singular to this manufacturer and their procedures.  I've never heard a definitive explanation but merely seen the results.

BTW Steve use of military brass in some of the rounds you mention like the TCUs I use in the Contender offers another whole group of challenges good for a different thread as this one was originally concerned with 5.56/223 in an AR.  With the absorption of Cobb Industries and the lack of interest shown their competitors I'm unaware of anyone offering such rounds on the AR platform at this time.

I'm still using .44 Magnum cases from RP and WW that have been loaded well over 50 times and perhaps over 100 times and they seem to work just fine.

I have similar straight wall pistol cases myself, but there again it is for use in a totally different platform and under different conditions.

[Steve P]

The statements I've made here concerning Federal brass for use in handloading for ARs, which BTW is the OPs original concern, are quite common results obtained by those of us who actually load for and shoot ARs in volume.  It is also common knowledge that commercial brass used in ARs is not a good idea.  The majority of actual AR users use LC strictly because of availability even though some of us will occasionally use RORG, Privi and even Guat with their tiny flash holes but I know of no one who uses commercial regularly. 

I appologize if I misread the thread.  I thought his concern was for "plinking ammo" which I assumed would not be loaded up to Mil Spec pressures of near 60k.  LC is mil-spec brass and capable of withstanding the 60K pressures in an AR.  Brass with "Federal" on it is SAAMI spec brass capable of pressures up to 50K.  For what it is worth, current "Federal" brass is made in Anoka, Mn and current LC brass is made at the Lake City plant in Independance, Mo.  Both plants (Federal and LC) are run by ATK (Allied Technologies).  One plant is making the 5.56 military brass and the other is making .223 brass.  Either brass, when loaded properly, should easily provide ample velocities, and multiple reloads, for "plinking ammo" in an AR.

Good Luck, and make sure you destroy any cases with loose primer pockets.

Steve

[Swampman]

I had great luck with .223 Federal Premium Match Brass in my Colt when I was shooting High Power.  The top USAF shooters got their ammo for free, and gave us their brass which I reloaded many times.  I prefer Remington/UMC and I've had very good luck with.  I used standard RCBS .223 dies to reload for my Colt Target Sporter with no problems.

[bilmac]

I just picked up a bunch of Federal brass on the range the same as hunterwinco described. It has crimped primers, BUT IT IS NOT MILITARY. the headstamp is FC and 223 rem. The military doesn't stamp cartridges that way. I am speculating that it may be special law enforcement ammo.