Author Topic: 686 cylinder throats  (Read 1091 times)

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Offline jk3006

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686 cylinder throats
« on: October 28, 2008, 10:13:37 PM »
Sheesh!  I just checked the cylinder throats on my 686 (never thought to do this before ::)) and the the .356 (according to my micrometer) jacketed bullets that I've been shooting won't even come close to passing through the throats without wacking them with a hammer and punch.  Just how undersized are these 686 throats anyway?  I want to shoot some cast bullets in this gun, but it looks like I'll have to get the throats opened up first.  Also, what is the barrel diameter on these guns?  Thanks.

Online Graybeard

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 03:47:49 AM »
A micrometer is hardly the correct tool for measuring the cylinder throats. The only proper tool is a pin gauge but darn few of us have those laying around so most use calipers. Using them properly in measuring cylinder throats isn't real easy tho and taking several measurements to be sure is normal procedure.

I have to wonder if they are just dirty as a reason for that size tho as I've owned a lot of S&Ws and have yet to see one that didn't shoot cast bullets well. Depending on the size of your barrel tho it still might. It's really the relationship between throats and barrel that matter not the absolute size of either and bullets should be sized for the barrel and hopefully the throats are just perhaps a half a thousandth over that.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline jk3006

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 07:36:41 AM »
My mistake, I did use dial calipers, not a micrometer.  I think the cylinder holes were clean enough, but I re-cleaned them and redid the test.  Now I can get the .356-.357 bullets to slip through with hand pressure, albeit quite a bit of hand pressure. 

I've read from Veral and others that cast bullets will shoot even if the throats are 1-2 thousandths over barrel diameter.  I'm sure I will eventually have to slug the barrel, but it would be nice to know if there is a typical standard that most of these 686's fall into for barrel diameter. 

The .357 is a somewhat of a new creature to me, as I'm mostly familiar with .44 and .45 dimensions.  My 686 is about 4 years old.  It's the 7-shot version, and I haven't shot it much (something I want to change). 


A micrometer is hardly the correct tool for measuring the cylinder throats. The only proper tool is a pin gauge but darn few of us have those laying around so most use calipers. Using them properly in measuring cylinder throats isn't real easy tho and taking several measurements to be sure is normal procedure.

I have to wonder if they are just dirty as a reason for that size tho as I've owned a lot of S&Ws and have yet to see one that didn't shoot cast bullets well. Depending on the size of your barrel tho it still might. It's really the relationship between throats and barrel that matter not the absolute size of either and bullets should be sized for the barrel and hopefully the throats are just perhaps a half a thousandth over that.

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »
I'm sure it will be fine. I've never seen a S&W that had a problem of oversize or undersize throats giving poor accuracy. My old 8-3/8" 686 with a four position adjustable front sight used to shoot my cast bullets from Lyman 358156 mould into an inch or less for a full cylinder of them at 25 yards.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline jk3006

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008, 12:43:32 AM »
I see that most cast bullets for this caliber are .358, which will mean swaging down in the throats.  Just to make sure, you're saying that this is not a big deal in your experience?

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 06:22:33 AM »
What I am trying to say is this.

Your method of measurement is rather imprecise so we really don't know what size they truly are. Anything other than pin gaging of a perfectly clean throat is imprecise.

The absolute size isn't really the major concern it's the match or mismatch of throat and bore diameter that's important.

Only if you slug the bore and determine the exact size of the bore and then compare it to the exact size of the throats do you know if it's a problem or not. Ideally the throats should be about one half of one thousandth of an inch larger than bore or the same exact size. Unless you have a custom made revolver they aren't likely to be that perfect.

More over what I am saying is I've owned well over 100 likely over 150 S&W revolvers and so far I've NEVER owned one that it was a problem on. I think it's highly unlikely yours will present any problems. Stop worrying and start shooting.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Tom C.

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 03:55:50 AM »
Much more precise measurement is possible with pin gages. Enco has relatively inexpensive gage sets:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=616-8131&PMPXNO=951510

They sometimes go on sale for less, around $65.

.356" is a little tight for a .357 mag, but it really depends on the bore diameter as well. My .357s are .357 to .358". That seems to work well. If you are getting poor accuracy with your .357 which you attribute to the undersized throats, you can get a .358" reamer from Brownell's and open them up, or you can send the cylinder to that guy who will open them for you.

If it shoots well with the current throat size, I probably would be reluctant to mess with it.
Tom

Offline jk3006

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 05:14:22 PM »
Thanks.

The gun shoots just fine with the hollow points that I'm using.  However, if I start casting for it, those molds (Lee) are .358.  I know my dial caliper isn't the best way to take these measurement, but then why does it accurately measure my .430 bullets on hand as .430, or my .452 bullets as .452?  It's telling me that the hollow points I have are .356, which are a very snug fit through the freshly-cleaned cylinder throats of my 686. 

Cylindersmith has a .358 reamer.  I may eventually go that route, but first I'm going to just shoot it the way it is to see if it'll work with .358 bullets.


Much more precise measurement is possible with pin gages. Enco has relatively inexpensive gage sets:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=616-8131&PMPXNO=951510

They sometimes go on sale for less, around $65.

.356" is a little tight for a .357 mag, but it really depends on the bore diameter as well. My .357s are .357 to .358". That seems to work well. If you are getting poor accuracy with your .357 which you attribute to the undersized throats, you can get a .358" reamer from Brownell's and open them up, or you can send the cylinder to that guy who will open them for you.

If it shoots well with the current throat size, I probably would be reluctant to mess with it.


Offline Tom C.

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 04:01:31 AM »
I measured my S&W 627PC with plug gages at .357". It shoots great with jacketed and cast bullets. You may want to try yours with cast bullets before you spend money to open the throats.
Tom

Offline jk3006

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 06:10:30 AM »
Agreed! 


I measured my S&W 627PC with plug gages at .357". It shoots great with jacketed and cast bullets. You may want to try yours with cast bullets before you spend money to open the throats.

Offline Autorim

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Re: 686 cylinder throats
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 03:57:14 PM »
I have never owned a Smith revolver that would not shoot .358 cast bullets well with a proper load. I don't think you will need to do anything but shoot it. My 686 shoots so well, I don't care what the throats measure.