Bolt won't close

[huntswithdogs]

Okay, let me start this off by saying all of the cases were full lengthed in fairly new RCBS 7Mag dies.

My youngun was reloading some 7mags last nite for his buddy and himself. His buddy's brass was Federal and his(my son's) was Win plated. My son had let his buddy shoot some of the plated ammo from his Encore during the summer. My youngun's shooting a MarkX. His buddy was impressed with the accuracy, so he asked my son to load him some. Just out of habit(thankfullly he listened to me at least once when I taught him about reloading) my son tried all of "his" cases in his rifle after sizing them. About half of them would let the bolt close. I sat down with him, checked the die set up, measured them as best I could with a set of hand calipers. All had been trimmed back to length, but none had been so long that you'd be expecting anything to be wrong. Just for giggles I tried a piece of his buddy's brass and guess what? It would let the bolt close either! I reckon the "bad pieces of Win brass must have been the ones his buddy had tried in his Encore.

I remember having a problem, similar to this, a number of years ago when my brotherinlaw and I were both shooting 300WMs. We got the bright idea to start necksizing. Any and all of the brass would fit my rifle, but if it was shot in mine and not full lengthed, it wouldn't go in his for nothing. Full length it, it'd work just fine in either.

Any of ya'll ever run into something like this? Seems to me, if brass is full lengthed it oughta be pushed back to factory sizes. All I can figure is, the Encore may be stretching the brass at or near the belt area due to the way the Encore's breech is. That little extra may be keeping the bolt from closing.

I thought about borrowing and trying another set of dies, maybe a set of Hornadys or getting on the phone with RCBS. Ya'll got any ideas......................?


Thanks, HWD

[qajaq59]

Just an off hand guess would be that the die needs to come down in the press a little bit more to push the shoulder back a bit. Check the set up instructions again.

[yooper77]

OK, since you checked the die setup and trim length.

Sometimes after so many firings the case will bulge slightly ahead of the belt.

I have heard even after full length sizing, this will not remove the bulge and the tool below needs to be used or the cases discarded.

I suggest to keep the brass segregated to only one firearm and don't mix match will probably solve your problems.

Innovative Technologies Belted Magnum Collet Resizer Die
http://www.larrywillis.com/
http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html

yooper77

[huntswithdogs]

Yeah, I tried running the die down until it contacted the ram. Didn't work. Tried putting them in my press(the die and shell holder) thought maybe for some reson he might not be getting a full stroke on his. Didn't work either.

The brass has definitely been segregated. If the bolt wouldn't close on the brass it went into his buddy's pile. Hopefully, something will be learned by my youngun. I warned him of this very thing last year. He decided not to listen and now is gonna have to come off of some cash for new brass. After he checked prices ,at Sportsmans, last nite, he was crying the blues. Some of the best lesson are the ones that hurt ya where it hurts.....IN THE POCKETBOOK!!!!!

[Lloyd Smale]

run your die down till it touches then go another turn. If that doesnt do it your probably going to need a small base die. My remington rifles are the biggest offenders when it comes to this. They are chambered tight and brass thats shot in another gun will usually not work unless its been small base sized. Once sized the first time in a small base die a convetional die will usually work fine if you keep the brass seperated to that gun.

[corbanzo]

Mic the base to shoulder length, and the base to neck length on your brass that won't close and the ones that will to see if there is any difference.  If none, I would mic the belt and just ahead of the belt on both to see any indescrepancies there also. 

[Sweetwater]

My Dad's custom 30-06 has a minimum cut chamber. By that I mean it is very tight on saami specs when I mic the brass after firing. My Rem 700 might have been made on a Friday before a holiday weekend as it is at the opposite end of the spectrum. In the Remington, the chamber was cut a tad deep. I have no trouble with it's own brass, but brass fired in it will not allow the bolt to close in the custom 30-06 even after full-length sizing in reputable sizing dies. On a whim, I carefully ground a bit off the bottom of the sizing die, which allowed the shoulder to be pushed back just a smidgen. Voila! That allowed the Remington fired brass to be chambered in the custom 30-06 and the bolt closes fine. When the rifles were 900 miles apart, it was easy to keep the brass separated. Now they sit in the same cabinet and it's not so easy anymore. They do like the same load, so sizing them to fit the custom rifle has seemed to be the way to go here. I've had other sizing dies that actually were built oversized and would not size cases properly. Just a thought of similarity there.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Tom W.]

That die that Larry Willis sells is worth every penny. My son bought one and we "share" it, as all of my sons and I  have  7mm Rem mags and he also has a big .300 Weatherby mag.

[Steve P]

If your buddies encore has a loose chamber at the belt (it's a TC and probably is), it will allow the base and belt of the brass to expand and you will not get it into a different chamber unless that chamber is looser than the one where originally fired, unless you use the belt sizing die reference above. 

I hope your boy has learned several lessons:  not only the importance of checking the empty brass to the chamber before loading, but also if you let your buddy borrow ammo tailored for your gun, you may not get it back.  In this case, sounds like the buddy picked up a few pieces of new brass for his encore.

I have a 7mm in a mauser action.  Dad has a 7mm in a Browning.  Neither fired and sized brass will fit the other..just another anomoly with belted magnums....go figure.

Steve 

[25/06]

i aint no expert but sounds like you fire formed your brass to his encore which had a less tolerant chamber. or maybe your oal is off just a bit. you can always shorten your rounds down a little bit more and see if they will chamber. my pops gets a real laugh out of it if i try and chamber fire formed brass in the wrong rifle. since im always borrowing his since i cant seem to keep my reloading up with my own shooting cravings.

[deerjackie]

 when you seat the bullet are you crimping? i backed my seating die off too much to prevent crimping on 25-06 and it did the same thing. my friend who is very seasoned caught it when i was telling him step by step  how i was  doing my handloading. hope that helped.dj

[calvon]

A good many years ago a friend of mine had two "identical" Model 721 Remingtons in .257 Roberts caliber. He habitually used factory ammo only. I offered to make him some handloads. I also had the guns at the time so I could test my handloads in them. I found that one gun wouldn't take my handloads even though I had full length resized all the cases in RCBS dies. It wouldn't allow the bolt to close on them. I borrowed some headspace  gages from a friend and found that the problem gun wouldn't close on a "go" gage. A bit of lipstick on the locking lugs on the bolt revealed that only one lug was making contact with its mating surface in the action. I apprised the owner of this and suggested he take that gun to a gunsmith for lapping the lugs. He did so and thereafter had no problems using handloads in it.

[Autorim]

Lesson learned...unless you are a very high volume shooter...always keep your brass segregated by rifle. There as no such thing as identical rifle chambers. Also, I doubt you can mike any shoulder to base length without specialized equipment. I don't have as many now as I once did, but when I was loading for several 30-06 rifles they were all different. I use a different sizing die marked for each rifle. Also, seat and crimp in separate operations, if you crimp at all. I do not crimp for single shot or bolt actions. The odds of brass stretching from the base to the belt are slim to none.

Also be very careful about bullet seating depth as a long seated bullet can also result in a round not chambering and can escalate pressure dramatically.

I generally keep all loaded cartridges in zip loc bags with a 3x5 card with the following data. Date, Caliber, Mfr of brass, No. of times fired, primer make and type, powder make and charge and whether measured or weighed and in which powder measure, bullet mfr. diameter and weight, overall length. If you really want to be accurate you can buy a comparator from Sinclair that allows you to measure the amount of bullet jump to the rifling - which I do.

As you can see, I do take reloading very seriously and have been doing it for quite some time - since 1963.

Reloading is a very rewarding venture, but one to be taken seriously and carefully...one step at a time.

Good shooting. I hope this helps.

Autorim

[Savage]

As I have more than one AR to load for. I use a small base sizing die and crimp as a separate operation using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. My loaded ammo functions in any rifle I run them in. I load for wayyyyyy too many firearms to try to keep brass for each one separate. I am no benchrest shooter, and all my loads are more accurate than I can hold. I see no benefit in fussing with ammo to develop a quarter MOA load, when I do well to hold 4 MOA from a field position. I'll leave the super duper fine tuned ammo to those with more time and Patience than myself. My #1 priority is that the ammo must chamber and fire. A small base sizing die and the LFCD will go a long way toward making that happen in ANY chamber.
Savage