45/70 govt. load data needed

[gendoc]

using remington 300gr semi jacket hp #rb4571
and would like to use imr-4227 or imr-4895
because i have about 5 pounds of each.

i've read these combinations work very well around 2000fps
but the powder weight was not mentioned.

i can't find it anywhere.

i have found sierra 300gr hp using 61gr imr-4895 @ 1968fps with 23.9k cup

would this be a good starting point using the rem 300gr sjhp?

my shooter is a H&R handi

thank you....

[John Traveler]

As a "rule of thumb", yes, you can substitute bullets of different manufacturer if they have the same weight.  The conditions are: they should have similar or identical seating depth, and nose profile.

For your 300 grain load, IMR 4895 is fine.  However, I would start it 10% lower than the recommended charge weight for the other 300 grain bullet.  You did not state if it was a starting or maximum load. but comparing it to similar cast bullet weights for IMR 3031 it looks maximum.  Starting lower and incrementing the charge by 0.5 grain at a time is the safe way to go.  It would also be a good idea if you did not try for "maximum" loads in your relatively light weight single shot.

I would not use the IMR 4227, as it is a much faster powder more suited for small cases and cast bullet loads.  It would be easy to overload and exceed .45-70 SAAMI pressures as it is too fast and will reach maximum pressures before suitable velocities are achieved.

[gendoc]

thank you!!
the load data for the sierra 300grain hp is for trap door rifles.
the hodgdon manual states this is a compressed load indicated by the letter"C"
after the grain weight. that i just noticed!!!
sorry about that......
but with the stated cup is 23.9K
the H&R handi should handle that, i'm i correct by saying that??
i'm new to handloading the 45/70, but not new to loading other calibers.
i just can't find the info i need,
and your and other's reply is appreciated greatly
thanks again

[John Traveler]

gendoc,

PLEASE recheck your load data!

I just got out my Sierra loading manual and found that .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield loads are listed as 43.5 grains using the 300 grain bullet.

Your load is the MAXIMUM for Marlin 1895 and Ruger Number One rifles at 61.6 grains!  If you are gonna shoot those loads, you have best have a rifle suited for those mid-30,000 lbs/sq-inch loads!

It is strongly suggested that you stick to M1873 Trapdoor Springfield level loads.

[Lazermule]

gendoc,

PLEASE recheck your load data!

I just got out my Sierra loading manual and found that .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield loads are listed as 43.5 grains using the 300 grain bullet.

Your load is the MAXIMUM for Marlin 1895 and Ruger Number One rifles at 61.6 grains!  If you are gonna shoot those loads, you have best have a rifle suited for those mid-30,000 lbs/sq-inch loads!

It is strongly suggested that you stick to M1873 Trapdoor Springfield level loads.

I agree, check and recheck the load data.  I also like to check at least 2 different printed sources to take the possibility of a misprint out of the mix. 

I have always been told of 3 varying levels of loads for the 45/70 cartridge.  Level one would be the Old Trap Door Levels, level 2 would be for the lever guns, and level 3 would be for the NEF Handis and Ruger No. 1 types. 

I have always made it a common practice of mine that whenever I load 45/70 above Trap Door levels I color the primer and case head with a red sharpie marker as an indicator.  This way they wont make their way into the wrong gun.  I don't even own a trap door, but I'd hate to even drop a round at the range by mistake or something and someone pick it up unassuming and have an accident.

[aldar]

I use the same bullet for my Buffalo Classic. I just use the load data for the Sierra bullet of the same weight and design without any problems. Haven't used the powders you mentioned but the other guys are right, the load you posted is a MAX load for Ruger #1. Stick to Trap Door loads using  at least 2 manuals to check.

[gendoc]

gendoc,

PLEASE recheck your load data!

I just got out my Sierra loading manual and found that .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield loads are listed as 43.5 grains using the 300 grain bullet.

Your load is the MAXIMUM for Marlin 1895 and Ruger Number One rifles at 61.6 grains!  If you are gonna shoot those loads, you have best have a rifle suited for those mid-30,000 lbs/sq-inch loads!

It is strongly suggested that you stick to M1873 Trapdoor Springfield level loads.

ok,
i checked my hodgdon manual and it says.......  page24, 2008 edition

45/70 govt. (trapdoor rifle)
300gr sie hp   imr-4895  61.0C  1968   23.900 cup

this is mainly why i'm asking for some experianced knowledge of help!!!!
 
i also found some info that tells me---  rem 300gr jhp   imr-4895  55gr  1997fps
and--------nosler 300gr partition   imr-4227   43.5gr  1981fps------and 47.5 is max

i believe this is more like it, you think?

[Badnews Bob]

The handie rifle will handle the ruger loads, I don't think your shoulder can, I know mine can't. The action will handle those loads however.


BTW hornady manual list 61.1 gr 4895 with a 350gr bullet @2000FPS as a max ruger #1 load you sure don't want to start there.

[John Traveler]

It's your gun, your shoulder, and your loads!

Have fun and let us know how it works out!

[gendoc]

i won't be loading squat, until you guys say so!!!!!!!!!
been loading for years, but new to the 45/70.
the hodgdon report looked like a mis-print to me.
its going to be next tuesday before i receive the correct loading data for the
rem 300gr sjhp
thanks

[45-70.gov]

i  am  in your shoes  too.

waiting  on a mold  to cast  and  to  empty some  more brass

can  any one post a link  the specifies  a  handi rifle load

the  max  trap door  look  interesting  but  you  know  how  we always want  more

[gendoc]

well, the search for the info is over!!!!!!!!!!!
finally got a reply on another reloading forum from a person with the data
for the handi using 300gr jhp.....

IMR4895 and a 300Gr bullet:
Start at 47.5gr
Max at 52.0gr

IMR 4227 and a 300Gr bullet:
Start at 36.0Gr
Max at 39.0gr

good proven starting points.

any input??

thank you all for the info.

[BBF]

gendoc
Lyman lists IMR 4227 for the 300 gr. Hornady HP which is very similar to the Rem.
This is from a 16" TCC barrel. I would think you could get another 150 fps or better from the Handi barrel.
 Start load 27.0 gr for 1327 fps   Max Load 32.0 gr for 1625 fps

Rem case and Rem 9 1/2 primer 

[gendoc]

gendoc
Lyman lists IMR 4227 for the 300 gr. Hornady HP which is very similar to the Rem.
This is from a 16" TCC barrel. I would think you could get another 150 fps or better from the Handi barrel.
 Start load 27.0 gr for 1327 fps   Max Load 32.0 gr for 1625 fps

Rem case and Rem 9 1/2 primer 

thanks, i'll look into that.......
the nosler 300 partition from #6 load data says
45gr for around 2000fps but no cup is available
using imr-4227

[BBF]

If you can't get 4227 to work satisfactorily for you, try some( beg borrow but do not steal !) some 4198. It will still burn clean with light loads. My own experience with powders like 4985 or slower has been mixed. If you load them right up the powder burns clean, if not, you got a lot of crap in the barrel.

[Autorim]

I suggest investing in a can of IMR4198. IME It performs very well with a wide variety of loads using 300 to 405 grain bullets. I think you will find a proper load much easier. I also suggest a Sierra manual and follow their loads to the letter using the 300 grain bullet. I think you will be happy. Let your shoulder be the judge. I have an Oehler 35 chrono and a 300 grainer at 2100fps is max for me in a Ruger No. 1.

[Westbound]

your handi-rifle can handle some of the hottest 45-70 loads published, but the recoil will be intense.
Buffalo Bore ammo specifies their "magnum" 45-70 loads are safe in newer 1895s, H&R rifles, shiloh sharps and rugers.  that doesn't mean it wont tear your shoulder off!!
I've found that my buffalo classic kicks like a mule at the upper end of the "lever gun loads", and it weighs a pound more than the handi-rifle.  your shoulder should give out before the rifle.
i've settled in at the lower end of the lever gun load pressure.  i get great accuracy and with a 405gr cast moving at around 1700fps, i'm not too worried about being under-gunned.