Odd guns/Carriages

[GGaskill]

Any idea of its value in its time?  Like, what could you buy with it?

[dan610324]

sorry dont know
but I know you cant buy one of those today for less then $ 150 000   
Ive been thinking the same many times , would be very interesting to try to find out what value it had .
somewhere Ive seen an picture when they used an sledge just to move the money
I dont have any 10 daler , if I remember correct its just 8 known surviving samples of them .
but I got an 1 daler from 1710 , its approximately 6 1/2 X 6 3/4 X 1/4 inch , weight 1092 gram .

just to not be off topic I can add that Karl XI sometime in the late 1600 melted trophy cannons to produce plate money . so they was made from 90/10 cannon bronz . when I find one I will buy it 

[thelionspaw]

So in the 17th c., the raw material was worth more than a finished product? Interesting!

[dan610324]

probably not .
would believe that the king just had to many war trophys
but Im not sure for the real reason

[thelionspaw]

That's understandable. A typical scrap drive. If it's collecting dust, melt it. We in america, are only impacted now (and at limited levels) with the loss of cannons that went in scrap drives. I say "limited" because there are few of us who realize it and fewer who care. I have just begun to collect images of cannons that were in public places 100 years ago.  It will be interesting to see how many are among the missing.

[thelionspaw]

Here's one that isn't going anywhere fast.

[dan610324]

that one would probably not disappear because of any reason for a while .
no scrap metal collector wants it , doesnt rust and dont get any bronzr disease 

[thelionspaw]

We both know someone who would probably paint it.

[dan610324]

 

maybe an good idea , it would protect it from water errosion   
but I cant understand who you mean   
is there anyone here who likes painted carriages 
noooo I dont believe you 

[dan610324]

sorry guys , but back to topic again ,
or at least a little closer to the topic .

I found the picture of how they carried the plate money ,
but Im not sure if this is copper plates or cannon bronze plates .

see how easy it is to get the word cannon in an off topic subject 
but to be honest its a bit cannon related

[Cannoneer]

I got 2 new photos of the barrells today

 

I also got a few photos of the drawing for the barrell

Dan,

 Thanks for posting these new pics and drawings of the triple bored cannon, (the bas-relief image of Cerberus on the chase is very befitting for this barrel) I still find these guns intriguing. The drawing shows that there's plenty of metal around the three bores, but I find it amazing that the walls between the middle bore and outer bores is so thin.

[dan610324]

yes its extremely thin , but remember that all 3 bores are connected to eachother by holes from outer bores in to the center bore .
so when you fire the cannon you fire all 3 barrels simultaniously .
that mean you have equal pressure on both sides of that wall .
so teoretical you could have had only 1/64" between the bores , it wouldnt had made any difference .
but what I found out by the info I got the bores are probably approximately 1 1/2" in diameter and the walls between the bores slightly thicker then 1/4" .
its what we call an 16 lodig cannon , its 32 lod on an pound  0,5 pond caliber , would guess thats approximately 1,5 inch , if so the walls are approximately 7 - 8 mm thick m 1/4" is 6,35 millimeter .
if you look at the drawing again of the breach you see the holes connecting all 3 chambers .
I would guess they are approximately 3/4 to 1" diameter , so they are large enough to equal the pressure in all 3 bores .
as it have been used in wars and still is in one piece and functional we can be sure that the idea was functional .
but if you check the proportions again you will see that the outer walls are exactly half the caliber diameter after the trumf and one caliber around the chamber , so its absolutely normal .
but this is the most odd construction of an muzzle loading cannon I ever have seen .
so it sure fits good on the sledge carriage 
but in that time it was lots of experiments about cannons .
some ideas was good , some wasnt .
their only posibility was to test ,
they couldnt run an computer simulation to see if it should explode or not 

[Cannoneer]

yes its extremely thin , but remember that all 3 bores are connected to eachother by holes from outer bores in to the center bore .
so when you fire the cannon you fire all 3 barrels simultaniously .
that mean you have equal pressure on both sides of that wall .
so teoretical you could have had only 1/64" between the bores , it wouldnt had made any difference.

I understand what you're saying in this and an earlier post, and theoretically speaking I would agree with what you're saying about thicker walls being unnecessary because the pressure from each side would be exerting almost identical pressures in the seperate bores; but what if for some reason one of the bores was a hang fire or didn't fire at all, do you think this might cause a dangerous accident, or do you think a rupture of one of the thin inner walls that then ignited the charge in the neighboring bore would be contained by the thick bronze that surrounds all the bores? It would be interesting to see a drawing of how the the vents were bored.

[dan610324]

I would guess that its very unlikely to not have all 3 chambers to fire simulaniously as they are connected with an 1" hole , especially since they used lose powder when loading the barrels .

there is no multipple "vents" , its not easy to detect on the drawing , but if you look closely at the breach photo of the drawing you can see that there is only one vent for the center bore .
and if you look at the photo of the barrel you see it clearly with only one vent .

but ok there is probably an reason to why this wasnt an common used and produced cannon model ,
could have been accidents or difficulties to produce them . I dont know why .

I only know that I love the design both of the barrels and the sledges .
an 1:3 scale model of the barrel would be approximately 18 - 19 inch long
maybe 3 feet total length mounted on an slege
a bit to big to be used as an desktop model , if you not got an large desk  ,
but it would sure look good to have one in the office ,
in the livingroom it would be nice to have one in full scale   

but if by any reason one of the bores would fail to ignite it would probably destroy the wall between the bores .its way to thin to handle the pressure . but who knows ?? I for sure dont , this is just my personal guesses .
but ok we cant know for sure as long as we havent tested it . its only in the exact bore center you have that very thin wall , move 1/4" up or down from bore center and you have rapidly increased the bore walls to an acceptable wall thickness .
but if we try to think logical its to thin in the center area , but as its circular on both sides it will help to deliver the forces into different directions there its more material . its difficult to try to explain how Im thinking as Im not an native english speaking person .
its the same as when you build an bridge , you use a lot of triangular shapes to spread the force .

I must say that this is way over my level of knowledge to try to discuss this matter , sorry
both because of lack of knowledges of the english language and my limited knowledge in this matter of calculating powers , forces and material strengths .
hope there are someone at this forum with some more intellect and education then me who can help me with this . it sure would be nice to know .