45LC/410 survivor reloading

[witkov]

stuffit and everyone else who has shared information,

Thanks to all for your posts.  This has been very informative I really wish I would have found this site before I started.  The amount of experience here is amazing.    I'll keep you updated if I do any more experimentation.

Regards,
Mike

[JerryKo]

JerryKo: Have you fired the Casull in that barrel?  It must have been on an SB2 frame?

Mike,

I hate to answer this, but if it will prevent another from attempting it,....  Yes I believed that from how much velocity, therefore ASSumed pressure, was decreased from the elongated throat that a casull load could be fired.  I attempted only one shot, and there is a picture of what happened to me.  The barrel held just fine, but the latch popped open and forcefully ejected the spent case into my forehead.  I have a telling photo of that in another thread, I think is called "pop open medicine".  I will not and do not recommend anyone reattempt such a foolish and irresponsible act.  So now that I have come clean no one else need be so foolish in the future.  It was on an sb2 frame, but before I realized the barrel was made from a milder steel than the other Handi RIFLE barrels.  I had ment to chrony its velocity to try to see where it might fall, but had forgotten the chrony that day, and as stated I will not reattemp, nor should anyone else.  I had a velocity decrease of over 400 fps with a known load in my 5 1/2 inch ruger revolver when fired from the 20" 45lc/410 barrel. So this is why I thought I might be at a safe level with a 454 casull load.

Also, I did enjoy this project.  I was on some time constraints, and made me feel a little bit of pressure trying to get the accuracy I wanted.  And once I got good results I felt satisified in what I set out for.  I tried selling the barrel when I needed some quick cash, but thankfully I still have it.  It will still go hunting with me.  And I probably will tinker with it again when other projects are finished.

I also admire your determination to fire so many rounds!

Billy has had good results, taking a different and unique approach with the brass shotgun shells, and for those forced to use slug guns, he has found a great substitute.  I would hate to have a youth not want to hunt because of the recoil of a 20ga slug.

Keep the posts coming, we can all learn something from one another, as I have reading and re-reading these threads.

Jerry

[JerryKo]

Mike,

I forgot to ask if in your 600 rounds of 45LC did you try any of the .455 Remington lead round nose bullets?  I have been thinking the extra size and soft lead might give better results.  In my 45LC classic carbine barrel it is practically a one holer at 25 yards and iron sights.  I have not tried in the combo barrel though.


Jerry

[gelandangan]

Mike & Jerry

I thank your willingness to share your experiences with us readers.
I have very limited time and budget to do experiments as what you guys do,
so rather than starting from scratch,
I could use some part of your experiment as a jump start point for mine.
 

Mike, there is a site that you may want to see
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
where they experiment using low powder density on LARGE cases.



 

[witkov]

JerryKo,

I am glad you suffered no permanent damage from the Casull incident.  Lesson for us all.

I have not used the Remington .455 sized bullet.  I have a prewar Colt New Service which has a.454 bore.  For that gun I use a Lyman 454190 over 5 grains of Bullseye. It is very accurate and mild.  Having the moulds I tried that bullet in various combination's of cast hard/cast soft,  Bullseye and Unique.  All generated bad leading and poor accuracy.

Other lead bullets I've tried with the Long Colt case in the Survivor include the Speer 200 gr SWC seen in the chamber cast photo, a soft 230 RN, a CBT 300 gr WFN w/gas check and the CBT 370 gr WFN w/gas check seen in the ammo photo.  All of them leaded at any velocity.  None was very accurate,

My theory is when the bullet clears the case the hot, expanding gas rushes past and around it and heats it up.  The bullet then travels the length of the free bore being jostled by the gas and subject to gravity and starts to leave the straight and narrow.  When the not spinning but rapidly moving hot lead hits the rifling it smears across it before it starts to rotate.  The leading is always in the first few inches after the forcing cone.

This theory is borne out by the results of the longer case.  Going to the long case has eliminated any of the leading.  I have not used any of the lighter cast bullets because of the velocities involved but the 370 grain CBT shoots inside 2" at 1700 fps with no leading.  I cast the 535 gr. from half linotype half pure lead to keep them hard.  I suspect I could go to 30 to 1 and they would still not lead.

When you write about a 400fps velocity drop in the Casull that is interesting.  I never got a velocity drop from the same load in a revolver but neither did I get the velocity gain you would expect from going from 5.5" or 7.5" to 20" either.  Again I think gas blow by is the culprit.

Gelan,

Wow, somebody spent some time and money putting those charts together.  Did you look at data on the 300 Rem Ultra Mag?  I point it out because 6 grains of Bullseye is about 6% load density in that case.  I would guess If you were going to get a small charge explosion that would be the place.

Regards,
Mike

[gelandangan]

Hi Mike,
Busy at work leaves no time to play..
Yeah I saw the 300 REM magnum - I cannot say that I am brave enough to try the 6 grains, but Bullseye is a fast powder too..

I may try that one.
Right now I am trying to make cases out of .303 brits (coz they are easy to get) and try them out.

Gelan

[witkov]

Gelan,

If you look in the shotgun reloading forums there is a ton of information on forming 303 cases. 

I agree that Bullseye would not be the powder of choice for that large of a case.  If you can get Unique or Universal Clays they would probably be a better selection for very low pressure loads.  12-15 grains of Unique with a 230 -250  grain bullet would be a very conservative load to start with.  I think you will find the medium rifle powders will be the best overall choice for higher velocity rounds.

Let us know how it goes.

Mike

[billy_56081]

I'm thinking Trailboss is a very good powder for loading low pressure loads in a large case. Makes it much harder to dump a double charge in a case.

[gelandangan]

I am actually using 30gn of AR2208 (I think it is sold as Varget) on my 45-70 it fills less than 60%.

Yes I am going to try trail boss too
Actually already got a few loads made up for my 45-70