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Author Topic: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.  (Read 604 times)

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Offline ms

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20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« on: December 07, 2008, 10:32:28 PM »
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 12:07:30 PM »
UMMM civil unrerst UMMM wonder what may trigger that?
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Offline Heather

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 07:03:31 AM »
IMHO the only reason for troops in the U.S. would to guard and secure our borders.  Anything other than that is just plain wrong.  It is unconstitutional for soldiers to police citizens!

Heather
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 12:05:24 PM »
Makes one wonder what they are gearing up for?
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 01:03:52 PM »
I would imagine there are that many troops in Ft. Benning. Posse Comitatus is still in effect. If it is violated as it was at Kent State, then we shall see the intestinal fortitude of those who brag here of courage, and their willingness to fight.
At the present, the cart is before the horse.
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Offline S.S.

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 01:50:54 PM »
If that force is made up of battle hardened veterans,
I think it will be no problem!
I know of none who would stand for the loss of the freedom they have
fought to defend. Just may backfire and turn into a coup!
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 03:57:09 PM »
I would say that is true. The Kent State soldiers were Guardsmen as I recall, and paniced. There are some though that WOULD do as ordered. With that I am sure.
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Offline eod20

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 05:29:37 PM »
kent state was not a violation of posse comitatus    as you pointed out they were gaurdsman    under the control of the state govener   and as bad as what happened was   you are also correct in that they did panic and the entire operation was poorly planed and excuted    they left the students with no route of withdraw and when they paniced the result was what we are left with
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 01:22:07 AM »
I disagree with nothing you have said eod20 but, can you "document" that the National Guard which is trained and equipped by the United States Government is NOT under Posse Comitatus? That was Federally issued weaponry, and ammunition the students were shot with. They are authorized to HELP American citizens but, FIRE UPON THEM?
This isn't a challenge but, a question. I would think that they ARE under Posse Comitatus.
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Offline eod20

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 02:57:34 AM »
the guard is only under posse comitatus when it is activated by a specific order of the president of the united states at all other times   ie disaster relief, fighting fires and so on it is under the control of the Governor of the state to which it belongs     that is how they get around posse comitatus by using the guard NOT reserve or regular army troops in riot control operations      just as you pointed out they were federally trained and equipped    but they were not "called to active duty" by a federal order when Kent state occurred    as for their level of training    remember  that was the cold war   those troops were trained for the fulda gap not to disperse civilians and students  riot control in those days was VERY hit and miss it was more intimidation than science    and as already posted     that was a very poorly planed and executed operation
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 04:15:58 AM »
I understand the concept, just wondering where this information is. I hoped you could advise me. Now I will have to get off my lazy butt and research myself. :)
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Offline eod20

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 06:15:54 AM »
i am sorry dee    i mistook your question     i received it in mandatory training from the jag corp. i believe it was compiled from multiple sources from the us constitution, court decisions, and statute laws    i will have to dig out my training manuals now to find it    i know it is part of federal law    i have seen it in anoc    now i will have to find it again
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 06:51:53 AM »
The National Guard AND the Coast Guard do not fall under Posse Comitatus. I looked it up. It is called the Posse Comitatus Act.
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Offline rex6666

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 07:41:51 AM »
I am not taking sides here (students vs guardsmen) i think i was still in high school
or just out. I do remember it went on for several days i am satisfied the the leaders of
the riot were saying go ahead they can't fire on citizens, well they did.
I think they had plenty of ways to escape for several days.
I think the next time this happens the rioters will be armed and i hope it is
battle hardened troops facing them. I think it was probably one guardsman got
spooked and fired then the ones next to him did. I do know for a fact that some years after, the Oklahoma Nat. Guard was sent to McAlister prison riot and ordered
in without ammo. Make me some sense out of that.
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Offline Dee

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Re: 20,000 TROOPS IN US.
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 08:12:33 AM »
rex6666 I believe you need to do some research on the Kent State shootings. These guys fired into crowds of college students.
The sense out of the McAlister riot was not to put a loaded weapon or weapons into the prisoners hands by accident. I personally have been ordered in to help put down jail disturbances. They are not comfortable operations, but they had to be brought back under control. Gas and water are what usually works best.

The two (KENT STATE, and MCALISTER RIOT) are no where near the same. Apples and oranges.
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